Hamas leader Sinwar dead

Here we have the double speak of Israel action writ large.
Many use this argument" So yes 150k to 250k deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible but it was the less terrible option compared to massively greater casualties if Japan itself had been invaded."

but when Nihon Hidankyo Hiroshima Nobel peace prize winners compare their experiences to Gaza children - well Israel gets all hurty feelings and
Nobel winning Hiroshima survivor's Gaza comparison angers Israel | Middle East Eye

I agree. All this „they will remember for generations to come“ won’t help anyone, least of all the Palestinians.

It’s derogatory

@Birdscratch

"If external aid workers handle the distribution in the short term and look to involve as many Palestinian women as possible in the political decision making process and the distribution of aid in the long term it will cut corruption and
ensure that the needs of children are prioritised. It’s worked in countries all over the world."

One of the most logical and sensible suggestions I have seen on these threads for quite a while.

But true.

@Whatsinanamehey
@Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot

"Common sense and logic seems to have gone out of the window for some posters this evening."

I know what you mean but it always brings me back to the quote "If you vote right wing then you have no heart but if vote left wing then you have no brain ".

But @Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot I am always happy to help:

OK so we all agree that dropping two atomic bombs on Japan led to the death of between 150k and 250k mostly civilian Japanese and this was a terrible thing.

However two months prior to this the Allies suffered 80k casualties taking Okinawa and Japan suffered 100k military and 150k civilian casualties.

With Japan refusing to surrender the only next option would be to invade Japan itself where it was expected the military and civilian casualties to go into the millions.

So yes 150k to 250k deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible but it was the less terrible option compared to massively greater casualties if Japan itself had been invaded.

100% agree 👍

Gaza runs on aid. What’s always happened is that a (relatively) small number of men control how the aid is distributed and decide who gets the paid jobs that are linked to it. In a place that’s hugely restricted in terms of what goods are allowed in and who is allowed out out that means that if you want to eat or earn money (unemployment is sky high) you need the favour of those men. The stronger the controls, the greater the power of those men over the rest of the population.

If external aid workers handle the distribution in the short term and look to involve as many Palestinian women as possible in the political decision making process and the distribution of aid in the long term it will cut corruption and
ensure that the needs of children are prioritised. It’s worked in countries all over the world.

Sinwar did not give a pygmies about the people of Gaza.
What a horrible expression

Conscription is mandatory in Israel, the idea that Netanyahu values the lives of ordinary Israeli’s is an illusion.

Military service has been compulsory in Israel since 1948. I'm no Netanyahu fan but it's a stretch to lay that one at his door.

@1dayatatime
Bloody hell. Even I had no idea just how bad those German numbers were, and I'm relatively interested in the WWII period.

No, they are very similar men in very different circumstances, with a very different set of tools and support available to their cause.

When Netanyahu failed, suffered humiliation, and was pushed to the limit, he did the same as Sinwar.

Conscription is mandatory in Israel, the idea that Netanyahu values the lives of ordinary Israeli’s is an illusion.

NO BN and his Govt did not protect the Israeli population from the 7th October attack. He, the IDF and the intelligence services failed them. Don't forget the Israeli people who texted for hours crying for help that never came. The Kibbutz security who found the IDF outside doing nothing.
They allowed setter violence to run rampant pre Oct 2023. The UK govt ( or House of Lords perhaps) actually met, I think Jan 2023, to discuss the increasing possibility of an uprising from Palestinian terrorists in response to the far right Israeli Govt from Nov 2022.

BN and his Govt are scum just like Hamas. They have acted in a way to make people forget their failings and it has worked. It's so sad that Israelis are so blind they even watch people in hospital beds being burnt alive and see no wrong in either their Govt actions or their own feelings.
Sinwar succeeded in the world seeing this deeply deeply unpleasant side to Israel, its Govt and some of it's people which will never be forgotten by people who previously loved Israel. I hate writing that because I hate what Hamas did on the 7th October but I also hate what Israel has done since.

Common sense and logic seems to have gone out of the window for some posters this evening.

I’m genuinely astonished that you think if SM had been around when the nuclear bomb was dropped you think people wouldn’t have had something to say about it. I cannot understand the point you are trying to make there, at all.

@Catatonican

"You cannot compare the two. Japanese and Germans weren't driven from their homes and did not undergo a genocide. Germany and Japan were not under occupation and being brutalised prior to the war. "

Hmm clearly history is not your strong point. But happy to help:

Ethnic cleansing and genocide of Germans after WW2 involved the expulsion of 9 to 12 million Germans and up to 3 million deaths:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlightanddexpulsionoffGermans_(1944%E2%80%931950)

Germany was occupied and brutalised after WW1, the humiliation of which led to WW2 and another occupation which led to massive brutality and rape of 1.4 million women:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeduringgtheoccupationnof_Germany#:~:text=Antony%20Beevor%20describes%20it%20as,eight%20to%20eighty%20years%20old.

A million Japanese who had been settled in Korea for decades were forcibly expelled to Japan or killed.

It's strange. It's as if people don't or cannot expect them to want peace. Why?
I'm sure many of them want peace.

I've seen some footage and posts on X this evening that show exactly that. While people on MN are talking up eternal conflict, some Palestinians are happy and relieved at Sinwar's death and want to live in peace, and I hope it happens for them as soon as possible.

You raise a really interesting point. Why didn't the German or Japanese people seek retribution or revenge after WW2.

I think the answer lies in the point that they were not portrayed either internally or externally as victims.

In the case of Germany after WW1 there was a mentality both internally (the great stab in the back) and externally that Germany was badly treated and humiliated after WW1. This then led to the rise of the right and the desire to get "our pride" back and then on to WW2. However after WW2 there was a recognition by many Germans that if they wanted their pride back then it might be better to do this economically rather than militarily.

Japan after the nuclear attacks also realised that the economic route would be a lot better than the military route.

Russia on the other hand after the humiliation of the fall of the Soviet Union has sought to make "itself strong again " by military means.

Had there been protests after WW2 both in those countries and in the West about how badly Germany and Japan were being treated and fostering the victim hood of those countries then maybe it would have been different.

Thankfully that evil demon has been killed, hopefully an end to the barbarism of Hamas is in sight.

Unfortunately too much blood has been shed, too much brutality before and after the 7th Oct, this won't be forgotten for generations

I suggest that the people involved need to learn to move forward from it, then for their own sakes. Because not doing so is just going to bring them more of the same, and why would anyone choose that?

You're also hugely underplaying the events of WW2 and suffering of the civilians. How many women and girls in Berlin and East Germany had to rebuild and get on with their lives after being repeatedly gang-raped by Russian troops, for instance? And many Geman cities were flattened. People were left starving and picking through the rubble, same as Gaza.

They have not forgotten the Holocaust and their actions show that. So don't come on here and pretend otherwise

Yes, Israelis know what happens if they don't defend themselves. Why would anyone pretend otherwise? 7 October was certainly a reminder.

You cannot compare the two. Japanese and Germans weren't driven from their homes and did not undergo a genocide. Germany and Japan were not under occupation and being brutalised prior to the war. Unfortunately too much blood has been shed, too much brutality before and after the 7th Oct, this won't be forgotten for generations. Just look at how Israel are using the 'never again' terminology as justification for the genocide of the Palestinian people and attacks on Lebanon. They have not forgotten the Holocaust and their actions show that. So don't come on here and pretend otherwise.

@Fordian

"The fact no one cares about Sudan, Syria, Nigeria.

I genuinely want to know why no one was out marching for these actual genocides."

In the examples of Sudan and Nigeria because:

1. There was no Western Involvement, although involvement by other countries (but no one is bothered by that).
2. The victims are black, African and Christian so for these three reasons there are fewer protests or media coverage
3. and sadly because there is a minority element of anti semitism associated with the Gaza protests.