The IDF have been so calculated haven't they.

Wonderlust233 · 2024-10-17T10:40:20+00:00

The plan for Israel to starve Palestinians has been made so much in advance. Israel have conducted studies on how they will starve Palestinians just enough that they do not die but also enough hat they suffer from the physical and psychological effects of starvation. How are they allowed to calculate how to starve children "just enough" and then to starve them for an entire year. I am just in shock after reading through some of these studies from Israel. It is a very calculated evil move. This happened in 2012 so it has been ongoing for so long now. How is this allowed? Where are the sanctions? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19975211.amp

Daftasabroom · 19/10/2024 08:49

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 10:52

Thank you @User37482 for a sane, rational comment amid the silly hyperbole of others.

@Catatonican @Wonderlust233 @TakeMe2Insanity , would you care to comment on @User37482 's point?

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There's nothing sane about it. The Rafah crossing is controlled by Israel and has been left utterly destroyed. Either @User37482 is ignorant or disingenuous.

Msfrustrated · 18/10/2024 17:23

Purspectiveplease · 18/10/2024 16:07

Isn't it normal to calculate the number of calories a population will need? I think every country was doing it when supplies were interrupted during covid. It doesn't automatically mean that Israel was intending to limit supplies to that amount. Given that this article says it was a draft document never actually used as policy and that the minimum was 106 but Israel continued to allow thousands of lorries through, it quite strongly implies the opposite. This all seems like a lot of speculation without much solid foundation.

I think it's a big reach of you to call it speculation without much solid foundation when the people in Gaza are actually starving right now and famine is imminent. It's far too late to expect people to believe it's possible that Israel were trying to ensure there was enough food for everyone.

Dulra · 18/10/2024 16:52

Auvergne63 · 18/10/2024 16:26

You really couldn't make it up.

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Thread seems to be gone

Auvergne63 · 18/10/2024 16:26

Dulra · 18/10/2024 16:16

This all seems like a lot of speculation without much solid foundation.

The irony of this statement given the thread you've just started

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You really couldn't make it up.

Dulra · 18/10/2024 16:16

Purspectiveplease · 18/10/2024 16:07

Isn't it normal to calculate the number of calories a population will need? I think every country was doing it when supplies were interrupted during covid. It doesn't automatically mean that Israel was intending to limit supplies to that amount. Given that this article says it was a draft document never actually used as policy and that the minimum was 106 but Israel continued to allow thousands of lorries through, it quite strongly implies the opposite. This all seems like a lot of speculation without much solid foundation.

This all seems like a lot of speculation without much solid foundation.

The irony of this statement given the thread you've just started

Purspectiveplease · 18/10/2024 16:07

Isn't it normal to calculate the number of calories a population will need? I think every country was doing it when supplies were interrupted during covid. It doesn't automatically mean that Israel was intending to limit supplies to that amount. Given that this article says it was a draft document never actually used as policy and that the minimum was 106 but Israel continued to allow thousands of lorries through, it quite strongly implies the opposite. This all seems like a lot of speculation without much solid foundation.

Auvergne63 · 18/10/2024 15:48

ssd · 18/10/2024 15:45

That poster should be praised.

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I did but many piled on her/him.
It take will power to silence one's ego to admit you are wrong and some humility too.

ssd · 18/10/2024 15:45

Auvergne63 · 18/10/2024 15:40

I think at this stage the alternative would be for them to acknowledge that the Israeli government/IDF are committing atrocities and have become monsters themselves.
There was one poster who did just that. You can imagine the reaction to her/his post.

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That poster should be praised.

Auvergne63 · 18/10/2024 15:40

SallyWD · 18/10/2024 13:46

And yet people will still defend them. It blows my mind.

I think at this stage the alternative would be for them to acknowledge that the Israeli government/IDF are committing atrocities and have become monsters themselves.
There was one poster who did just that. You can imagine the reaction to her/his post.

Objectpersonification · 18/10/2024 14:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Dulra · 18/10/2024 14:05

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 13:56

You are trying to mislead people. You did not say the article was "concerned about starving Palestinians" (which of course it is). You said:

"Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.
Some posters? the US government are as well". (Followed by the link)

That very clearly implies that the US government was making the same damning interpretation as the posters I was referring to.

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I'm not trying to mislead anyone. Maybe you need to explain what you meant by the most damning interpretation possible because I've clearly misinterpreted what you meant

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 13:56

Dulra · 18/10/2024 13:37

But you linked to that article as if it supported the damning, emotive, judgemental language and opinion

No I didn't. I linked it because of your comment below, to point out that there are more than just posters here concerned about starving Palestinians

Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.

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You are trying to mislead people. You did not say the article was "concerned about starving Palestinians" (which of course it is). You said:

"Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.
Some posters? the US government are as well". (Followed by the link)

That very clearly implies that the US government was making the same damning interpretation as the posters I was referring to.

SallyWD · 18/10/2024 13:46

And yet people will still defend them. It blows my mind.

Dulra · 18/10/2024 13:37

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 13:32

Sure. But you linked to that article as if it supported the damning, emotive, judgemental language and opinion, when in fact it doesn’t.

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But you linked to that article as if it supported the damning, emotive, judgemental language and opinion

No I didn't. I linked it because of your comment below, to point out that there are more than just posters here concerned about starving Palestinians

Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 13:32

Dulra · 18/10/2024 11:17

Because they are professional journalists and politicians writing official documents, not ordinary joe soaps commenting on mumsnet, people can have opinions of something and use whatever language they see fit to describe it

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Sure. But you linked to that article as if it supported the damning, emotive, judgemental language and opinion, when in fact it doesn’t.

OhMaria2 · 18/10/2024 12:42

" put them on a diet " I believe the term was.
Hyperbole? When they say what they're going to do then do it?

Original poster

Wonderlust233 · 18/10/2024 12:38

Grandmasswagbag · 18/10/2024 11:05

Ha! Yes I'm sure this report was done out of care a kindness for civilians to make sure that they are all receiving a nutritious and fulfilling diet. All the evidence we have to date points to this being the reason.

Exactly, at the time they could have potentially twisted it that way as they attempted to but current events show that this plan was to calculate how to starve Palestinians.

OP posts:

Original poster

Wonderlust233 · 18/10/2024 12:35

Wonderlust233 · 18/10/2024 12:33

Yes but it has evolved to being a starvation plan now. This was 10 years ago.

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Even then let's nor normalise giving an entire population of mostly children less calories to just avoid malnutrition. They are reducing the physical health of the population in a very calculated way and have been doing so for decades. Now they have just fully escalated things to starvation but this plan been ongoing for decades.

OP posts:

Original poster

Wonderlust233 · 18/10/2024 12:33

User37482 · 18/10/2024 06:32

This reads like a plan to figure out calories required not a starvation plan. Normal logistical planning by the looks of it. You do need to read your own links.

The existence of a document discussing how many calories/protein etc a population needs is not the same as a starvation plan. You can definitely question whether Israel allowed enough food through but this is such a silly post.

Also food aid was coming through the Rafah crossing from Egypt. I don’t know why people keep forgetting that Egypt had a crossing with Gaza.

Yes but it has evolved to being a starvation plan now. This was 10 years ago.

OP posts:

Dulra · 18/10/2024 11:17

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 11:09

I agree with the Guardian article and the US letter, but neither of them use emotional language like "starve them just enough".

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Because they are professional journalists and politicians writing official documents, not ordinary joe soaps commenting on mumsnet, people can have opinions of something and use whatever language they see fit to describe it

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 11:09

Dulra · 18/10/2024 11:04

Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.

Some posters? the US government are as well

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/15/us-israel-weapons-gaza-aid-letter

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I agree with the Guardian article and the US letter, but neither of them use emotional language like "starve them just enough".

Grandmasswagbag · 18/10/2024 11:05

Ha! Yes I'm sure this report was done out of care a kindness for civilians to make sure that they are all receiving a nutritious and fulfilling diet. All the evidence we have to date points to this being the reason.

Dulra · 18/10/2024 11:04

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 11:00

I fear you won’t get far on this thread with your rational comment. Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.

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Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.

Some posters? the US government are as well

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/15/us-israel-weapons-gaza-aid-letter

US warns Israel of potential halt to arms transfers if Gaza aid is not distributed

A private letter from Antony Blinken and Lloyd Austin to Benjamin Netanyahu gives Israel 30 days to act

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/15/us-israel-weapons-gaza-aid-letter

Dulra · 18/10/2024 11:02

User37482 · 18/10/2024 06:32

This reads like a plan to figure out calories required not a starvation plan. Normal logistical planning by the looks of it. You do need to read your own links.

The existence of a document discussing how many calories/protein etc a population needs is not the same as a starvation plan. You can definitely question whether Israel allowed enough food through but this is such a silly post.

Also food aid was coming through the Rafah crossing from Egypt. I don’t know why people keep forgetting that Egypt had a crossing with Gaza.

Also food aid was coming through the Rafah crossing from Egypt. I don’t know why people keep forgetting that Egypt had a crossing with Gaza
Which is now controlled by Israel and too small to get large aid trucks through so what can come through is limited. I don't know why you keep forgetting that

Whatever your interpretation of this document is it is no secret that not enough aid is getting in. Israel's biggest ally the US have given Israel a 30 day warning to "reverse the downward humanitarian trajectory" which highlights how serous the situation has become

Fruhstuck · 18/10/2024 11:00

Ablondiebutagoody · 17/10/2024 12:28

From reading the article, wasn't the calculation for how many aid trucks they needed to let in to avoid malnutrition? Presumably the Red Cross etc. do those calculations all the time all around the World.

I mean, they then let in way fewer trucks which is appalling but the "studies to starve them just enough" stuff is a bit melodramatic.

I fear you won’t get far on this thread with your rational comment. Some posters are only interested in making the most damning interpretation possible of any actions taken by the Israelis.