The aftermath

Absolutely. Hamas as an organisation and individual leaders are extremely wealthy. As is Hezbollah. Both tied to extensive criminality in the region.

Maybe you need to read up a bit more on this - it was a bit more complicated than that.

I should have said, first money into the pot should be the assets of senior Hamas members.

After WW2, Germany was rebuilt by the allied, the same allied who destroyed it.
Do you think it shouldn't have been the case?

I think this is a different case, and it should ideally be a global investment. As Israel didn't start this round of the conflict, insisting they repay feels punitive to me.

However there will have to be a resolution at some point, with Israel funding most of the rebuilding of Gaza (after all they destroyed it)

Or perhaps the parties that started this conflict could pay for it?

How would you feel if your land was being encroached upon and obliterated by the very refugees that were settled there?
This is why so many feel for Palestinians- FIL was in Army over there and had sympathy for Arabs even back then.

Many Israelis lost their homes and livelihoods in various Middle Eastern and European countries as well before building new lives.
I'm sure I wouldn't feel great but what else is to be done other than acceptance and working towards peace? Starting yet another catastrophic war with Israel and losing everything? How does that help?

how do you get to the point of a more moderate Government by ceasing fire now

Well it would have been far easier 11 months ago to negotiate a better and safer relationship, and to have asked the international community to organise democratic elections for the palestinian people with credible choices of leadership. It was madness to think totally destroying Gaza and killing so many innocent civilians, would solve the issue! But I suspect that was more about revenge.

Much harder to build a safe relationship now unfortunately, the hatred, resentment and trauma will be huge and long lasting. However there will have to be a resolution at some point, with Israel funding most of the rebuilding of Gaza (after all they destroyed it), and maybe the international communtiy can help then with building a Government for the Palestinian people. Needless to say Palestinians will need to be given their own state.

How would you feel if your land was being encroached upon and obliterated by the very refugees that were settled there?
This is why so many feel for Palestinians- FIL was in Army over there and had sympathy for Arabs even back then.

And the Palestinians were there first!
It is their Land.

See this is the exact message that I don't think is helpful. The Palestinians need to accept the existence of Israel. Having refugee status handed down the generations, for instance, is ridiculous.
It may give Western supporters a warm fluffy feeling chanting "From the river to the sea" but ultimately it's the Palestinians that have been suffering from this lack of acceptance.

The exact borders will be a subject for the negotiations - how would anyone here know? I doubt very much thar 'complete self governance' is an option immediately because there would have to be a process to decide what that is exactly and what mechanism the Palestinian people use to determine it given that Hamas have completely failed to allow them to exercise any sort of democratic rights in recent times. It takes time to build a democratic culture & probably other states will need to be involved to broker the process.Israel isnt going accept anyone whose aim is to destroy Israel.

And the Palestinians were there first!
It is their Land.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/students-describe-attack-by-settlers-west-bank-elementary-school-2024-09-17/

And you can outlaw teaching anti semitic rhetoric but when school children are literally witnessing their teacher and classmates being attacked by settler no lesson will help change an idealogy.

Does this involve Israel withdrawing completely from Gaza and the West Bank and making no further attempts to widen its borders into these areas and allowing Palestine complete self governance as an independent state.

Exactly, the idea that you just roll over and give up against an enemy that wishes to destroy you is bizarre. Why are only Israelis expected to do this? You help build a situation where peace is more attractive than war to the next generation. They are right that the ideology is really hard to defeat which is why so much international co-operation is needed, to ensure that we don't give in to appeasement.

Do you think you can kill every Hamas and Hezbollah member and more importantly do you think you can bomb their ideology away.

You can kill the leadership, defeat them militarily and then have a country governed by a party that accepts Israel's right to exist and outlaws the teaching of antisemitic rhetoric in schools; while creating prosperity.
That will also involve keeping the Iranian regime and their hateful, insididious ideology out.

You would think! Its quite weird really. As George W. Bush of all people referred to it - the bigotry of low expectations. People who are 'pro-Palestinian' on these threads often seem to have low expectations of all sides . I'm sure its going to be really, really tough but I do have faith in people's resilience and desire for a better life. Its a tragedy that Hamas chose to attack people & communities actually engaged in active peace work but they weren't alone.

Yes, and it's disturbing and disappointing that instead of a discussion about the ways in which the global community that claims to care so much could contribute to rebuilding Gaza and safeguarding the lives, livelihoods, rights and futures of all Palestinians going forwards, there's an almost anticipatory attitude towards "this won't end well for Israelis or Jews" (wtf) as if it's regrettable but only natural that they're going to have to- and deserve to- suffer.

Why would anyone want to see a cycle of hatred and revenge perpetuated? Are people of other countries (and apparently their worldwide diasporic populations) also expected to bear the shame and be punished on masse for the actions of their governments, militaries and terrorist groups or is it just Israel and Jews? Rather than wishing to see further harm and division inflicted upon anyone, wouldn't it be better to wish for an effective multi-collaborative peace process and rebuilding?

A phrase that has been used here repeatedly for Palestinians that they brought it on themselves by allowing Hamas to continue.

There is a horrifying complacency about the idea that its 'not surprising'. We've seen this morph into 'they brought it on themselves' before.

I'm glad you agree with me that wishing punishment upon Israelis and Jews because they'll all have to pay a price in the future for the hatred towards them and "the stain on them all" is an abhorrent viewpoint.

The fact that you don't find it surprising speaks volumes about how this hatred has been allowed to flourish unchecked.

I think this is a very poor characterisation of Palestinians. Afrer the second world war, the Germans didn't become a new generation of terrorists despite the huge loss of civilian life and destruction of cities - they rebuilt.

No but after the lost World War 1 they started another one a generation later.

Do you think you can kill every Hamas and Hezbollah member and more importantly do you think you can bomb their ideology away.