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Conflict in the Middle East

The aftermath

243 replies

Auvergne63 · 12/10/2024 10:39

All wars end. I use the term "war" very loosely as I don't view this as a war.
What will happen to the Gazans? How can live in such devastation? How can they deal with so much trauma? Will they ever recover?
Gaza faces a massive reconstruction challenge. Here are key facts and figures | Reuters
The former Israeli prime minister Olmert thinks that Netanyahu has no plan for after the war. He has been a strident critic of his actions.
Ex-Israeli PM makes devastating condemnation of Netanyahu’s war in Gazan | The Independent
Here is a link to his peace proposal in collaboration with Nasser al-Kidwa
Former Israeli PM and former Palestinian foreign minister lay out joint plan to end Israel-Hamas war | CBC News

Ex-Israeli PM makes devastating condemnation of Netanyahu’s war in Gaza

Exclusive: Ehud Olmert tells The Independent that the ‘arrogance’ of his successor led to catastrophic security failures that allowed the bloody Hamas attack and that continuing an untenable military mission while hostages are still being held would be...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-olmert-gaza-offensive-israel-b2493430.html

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SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 19:08

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 18:54

With due respect, I can't take your posts seriously anymore, for the simple fact that you believe that the USA started WW2.

Where on earth did you get that from? I have never said the US started WW2? Dont be ridiculous.

Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2024 18:59

. Its increased rather a lot since the 1940's. A people wiped out is completely inaccurate. But there you go accuracy and these threads don't go hand in hand.

The birthrate in Gaza is nearly two and a half times the rate of the UK due to early marriage rate and low education of women.
Just maybe that's why the population is going up not that Israel is not commiting a genocide

Catatonican · 13/10/2024 18:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 18:54

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 18:43

Make up your mind. Is it or is not about numbers.? When you say they are being 'wiped out' that isually implies a vast majority. As @OctoberOctopus rightly points out a majority have not been killed.

With due respect, I can't take your posts seriously anymore, for the simple fact that you believe that the USA started WW2.

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SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 18:43

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 18:22

They are being wiped out now as we speak. A genocide is not defined by the number of people killed and but by the intent of the ones doing the murdering.
Netanyahu and his associates have made their intentions clear.

Make up your mind. Is it or is not about numbers.? When you say they are being 'wiped out' that isually implies a vast majority. As @OctoberOctopus rightly points out a majority have not been killed.

Catatonican · 13/10/2024 18:39

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 13:23

I'm not getting the feeling that you hate to say it at all, to be honest.

Not many people enjoy seeing others suffer. The whole situation is just sad all around as it didn't need to get to this stage. If and when the inevitable unfolds, the Israeli government will only have themselves to blame but sadly it will likely be the next generation that face the consequences.

A PP mentioned that the kicker this time is that noone can say they never knew. This is really the first large scale war involving multiple countries whereby you also have the full effect of social media platforms able to document and showcase everything real time. I have seen so much that I did not want to see. The brutality, lack of respect for human life and dehumanisation makes me sick to my stomach. The only thing worse than this is the justification empowered people across the world openly declare as rational for Israel to keep doing what they are doing.

I know several life long Conservatives. It's just anecdotal, but the spineless comments Rishi made about Israel support was the swing factor that made them vote Lib Dem in the election.

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 18:22

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 18:14

"I don't think they intend for their to be many Gazans left. If you look through history at other peoples that have experienced genocide, occupation and land grabs, their populations shrink until they become an irrelevant minority as a proportion to the growing population of the recent invaders."

That was the emotional, inaccurate post.

My reply was calm and accurate. Population over 2 million. There are lots of Gazans left. The population has actually increased since the 1940's ...."at the outset of the 1948 war, the population of the Gaza region was approximately 60,000 to 80,000. Its increased rather a lot since the 1940's. A people wiped out is completely inaccurate. But there you go accuracy and these threads don't go hand in hand.

Edited

They are being wiped out now as we speak. A genocide is not defined by the number of people killed and but by the intent of the ones doing the murdering.
Netanyahu and his associates have made their intentions clear.

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OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 18:14

"I don't think they intend for their to be many Gazans left. If you look through history at other peoples that have experienced genocide, occupation and land grabs, their populations shrink until they become an irrelevant minority as a proportion to the growing population of the recent invaders."

That was the emotional, inaccurate post.

My reply was calm and accurate. Population over 2 million. There are lots of Gazans left. The population has actually increased since the 1940's ...."at the outset of the 1948 war, the population of the Gaza region was approximately 60,000 to 80,000. Its increased rather a lot since the 1940's. A people wiped out is completely inaccurate. But there you go accuracy and these threads don't go hand in hand.

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 18:04

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 17:52

The same place where you get yours, obviously.

We have different opinions, as is.

I don't ask others to reread my comments and reply again. 😂 I reread their comment which was full of emotional language. Projection obviously. 😂

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 17:52

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:47

Yes, so do I.

Seriously, where do these posters get their sense of importance from 😂 .

The same place where you get yours, obviously.

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Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 17:48

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:31

I don't need a link, but of course others may find it useful.

I think you do.

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Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 17:33

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:17

This makes no sense. If the USA was not reponsible for starting WW2 who was taking responsibility for whose actions in the implementation of the Marshall Plan?

I think you really, really, need to read up on WW2. Your grasp on history is tenuous and I am being generous.

WW2 started in September 1939, when Germany invaded Poland. The USA joined in 1941 after the Pearl Harbour bombing.
So no they didn't start WW2 but the USA secretary of state Marshall developed and implemented this plan in collaboration with the recipients of this funds.

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SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:59

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:47

Yes, so do I.

Seriously, where do these posters get their sense of importance from 😂 .

The echo chamber amplifies....

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:48

Catatonican · 13/10/2024 16:34

Remove the emotion, re read what I wrote, then draft a new response.

Nope, it's as I said.

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:47

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:45

I think you're just fine @OctoberOctopus!

Yes, so do I.

Seriously, where do these posters get their sense of importance from 😂 .

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:45

I think you're just fine @OctoberOctopus!

Catatonican · 13/10/2024 16:34

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:19

There around 2 million people who haven't died. The population of Gaza has grown rapidly since after the 1940's. The population hasn't shrunk and isn't a tiny number of people.

Hopefully the war will end soon and a new government for gaza. One that focuses on improving things for its people rather than lobbing missiles. Continuing international aid will rebuild.

Remove the emotion, re read what I wrote, then draft a new response.

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:31

I don't need a link, but of course others may find it useful.

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 16:30

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:11

Well you brought it up and expected someone else to go into it! Anyway, it wasn't just the Marshall Plan, that was my point.

Why do you assume that's why I brought it up? How do you know what I was thinking? To quote Michael Straczynski "your assumption and the truth dine at totally separate tables.”
There is a link on the Marshall plan. The money to rebuilt came from the USA, that is why it was called the Marshall plan.
The Marshall Plan - Rebuilding Western Europe After WW2 (thoughtco.com)

Rebuilding Western Europe After WWII

Did the Marshall Plan of the US aid save Western Europe in the aftermath of World War II, or is it overstated?

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-marshall-plan-1221199

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OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:20

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 13/10/2024 15:29

I should have said, first money into the pot should be the assets of senior Hamas members.

Yea and hezbollah and Iran who fund all the terrorists

OctoberOctopus · 13/10/2024 16:19

Catatonican · 13/10/2024 11:45

@Martymcfly24 I don't think they intend for their to be many Gazans left. If you look through history at other peoples that have experienced genocide, occupation and land grabs, their populations shrink until they become an irrelevant minority as a proportion to the growing population of the recent invaders.

There around 2 million people who haven't died. The population of Gaza has grown rapidly since after the 1940's. The population hasn't shrunk and isn't a tiny number of people.

Hopefully the war will end soon and a new government for gaza. One that focuses on improving things for its people rather than lobbing missiles. Continuing international aid will rebuild.

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:17

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 15:34

I disagree. It is, for me, a question of taking responsibility for your actions.
After all, the USA didn't start WW2 but rebuilt Germany and other European countries with the implantation of the Marshall plan.

This makes no sense. If the USA was not reponsible for starting WW2 who was taking responsibility for whose actions in the implementation of the Marshall Plan?

SharonEllis · 13/10/2024 16:11

Auvergne63 · 13/10/2024 15:37

Please don't patronise me. Of course it is more complicated than that but I don't have the time or the inclination to write an essay on the ins and outs of the Marshall plan.

Well you brought it up and expected someone else to go into it! Anyway, it wasn't just the Marshall Plan, that was my point.

Notaflippinclue · 13/10/2024 16:00

Cost of rebuilding Gaza upwards of £50 billion - GDP of Iran £413 billion - sorted!

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 13/10/2024 15:37

After all, the USA didn't start WW2 but rebuilt Germany and other European countries with the implantation of the Marshall plan.

This was an investment in long-term peace and prosperity. I hope that similarly the best way forward can be found for Gaza. Either way I doubt they will be soliciting my opinions.

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