The aftermath

Do you think Hamas does a good job at creating a place to live where " no one religion or race can be prioritised above another? or Iran, or Afghanistan etc? Israel actually does have good laws and equal rights for all it's citizens.

I didnt see this. A zionist believes in the existence of Israel not the spremacy of Israel. Your twisting of words and concepts is pernicious.

Zionists are pretty much homogenous? They believe in the supremacy of Israel.

Zionist; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

There are very few Jewish people who are not zionists actually, either here or in Israel.
but taking the recognised definition of zionists to be people who believe in a Jewish homeland, why are you referring to zionists acting collectively? How & why would all zionists think or act the same in this conflict, or in any other scenario?

@Hunglikeapolevaulter You can kill the leadership, defeat them militarily and then have a country governed by a party that accepts Israel's right to exist and outlaws the teaching of antisemitic rhetoric in schools; while creating prosperity
So let's have some examples please of how this type of approach has worked

@SharonEllis a Zionist is someone who believes that the state of Israel is a religious homeland for Jewish people.
There are many Jewish people who are not Zionists, and there are some Israeli born Jewish people who aren't Zionists.
There's no place on this earth where one religion or race should be prioritised above another. Everyone is born equal and we need to learn to coexist peacefully.

I do believe the death toll could be higher. The Gaza strip is such a tiny area and so highly populated compared to eg Afghanistan. And when the terrorists are dressed like civilians, " protected" by civilians I can't imagine how difficult it is to operate in conditions like that. I don't really have any solutions...but I also don't think Hamas and Hezbollah can be left to operate on Israel's borders.

And yet you are talking about zionists as a homogeneous group in your (grotesque) posts.

Again, making a point of comparing the actions during war of the world's only majority-Jewish state, with the Holocaust, is antisemitism.

I'm not saying this to shut down critisism of the conflict or of Israel's actions. I'm in no way suggesting that they are beyond critisism. I'm saying don't compare this to the Holocaust.

Or do, keep showing us.

@Hunglikeapolevaulter I would direct you to read some Italo Calvino or Primo Levi.
Zionists, Communists and Jewish resistance groups all had different views during WW2 and they were not homogenous. We can honour the memory of those who died and we can conflate the actions of Zionists with those who killed them. Both things are possible.

@ismu what is your definition of a zionist?

Plus I don't understand how the rate could possibly be calculated when there are so many bodies under the rubble plus it's the IDF announcing the killed were terrorists not civilians and they have not got form for accuracy.

That post is naive at best or propaganda at worst

The latest information is that there is a very very much higher death rate than 41,000.

Foreign doctors who have been to other war zones are saying the casualties are beyond anything they’ve ever seen before.

Has anyone got the links? It is very difficult to keep re linking information for posters who haven’t been following, not that they should have been, but it is hard to retrieve information posted on many threads.

Children, civilians, whole families are being annihilated in Jabalia right now! Imagine the liquidation of the Warsaw ghetto. That.

Again please stop comparing the current conflict specifically to the Holocaust. Again, it is not okay and it is antisemitism.

Your entire post goes too far.

Genocide is genocide.

This conflict isn't that.

It came up on a thread yesterday (?) that it is not ok to make holocaust comparisons about Israel’s acts against Palestinians, and it is actually against generally accepted official guidelines to do this.

This issue has been discussed on other threads and takes too long to explain carefully again here, and I am not best placed to try. I think Limesoda posted a helpful guide yesterday if anyone can remember where, and someone explained very well too as I remember.

The Israeli killing of Palestinians ( including intentional targeting children by snipers) the wholesale destruction of Gaza, and the extremist illegal settler actions and attacks in the West Bank that are all taking place can all obviously be fully described or criticised in their own terms though.

With all due respect, if you really think that's what @SharonEllis said, your reading comprehension may require a little work.

Genocide is genocide.

The combatant to civilian death rate in Gaza is somewhere between 1:1.1 and 1:1.5 which is very very low in war zones with high civilian populations like Gaza. I think the Israeli govt. Is doing what they can to avoid civilian casualties but it's very difficult. And there will be some members of the IDF, like any army who are bad and don't behave as they should but I can tell you the people I know in the IDF are fathers with children of their own who hate that there are any civilian deaths but they are fighting to defend their country, to keep their own families safe. There isn't a genocide, there are civilian casualties of war. The civilian casualties in Afghanistan after 9/11 were far higher but there weren't marches all over the west and declarations of " genocide" then, why do you think that was?

The abhorrent view that a state annihilating a whole lot of indigenous people, destroying their homes, medical centres, schools and places of worship -razing everything to the ground - starving them, and taking their land - will lead to the people doing this being seen in a bad light?

The post said Jews. Not "the people doing it", not the IDF, not Israelis - Jews.

The abhorrent view that a state annihilating a whole lot of indigenous people, destroying their homes, medical centres, schools and places of worship -razing everything to the ground - starving them, and taking their land - will lead to the people doing this being seen in a bad light?

They are most definitely being wiped out, but similar to the Holocaust, you will always have deniers.

Civilians are dying in this conflict, as they do sadly in many conflicts, but comparing this to the Holocaust is antisemitic. It's really not okay.