The aftermath

😂😂What a ridiculous reply!

This is interesting. Are there really no Palestinians in Israel? I would have presumed that there were. I watched a documentary not long ago where Israelis referred to Palestinians in the West Bank as 'Arabs' so it gets kind of confusing.

Google tells me The Arab minority, who are predominantly Muslim, are descended from Palestinian Arabs who remained in Israel when it was founded in the 1948 war in what had been British-ruled Palestine. Is there a reason they aren't referred to as Palestinian Israelis, rather than Arab Israelis? Again Google tells me that Most prefer to be identified as Palestinian citizens of Israel. You seem to feel strongly that they aren't Palestinian Israelis, is there a reason for that?

I am just genuinely curious about this because I do find it all quite confusing. For example you say 'Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza' but there are also 60000 Palestinians in the UK, 160000 Palestinians in the US etc but there are really none in Israel?

That's where settlements end very often but rarely where they start. It was an intriguing idea, but unlikely to be much more than a thought experiment.

So the IDF soldiers who killed children in the North of Gaza today on the streets did it because they just felt like it? Or were they ordered to?

I highly doubt it's the policy of the State of Israel to deliberately shoot unarmed children so yes that's a deliberately offensive comparison and you know it.

I cannot say whether today's events happened as you describe given the absolute slew of propaganda from both sides that has bombarded social media and even news outlets over the past year.

Some sick people will go to any means to defend the indefensible.

So the IDF soldiers who killed children in the North of Gaza today on the streets did it because they just felt like it? Or were they ordered to?

That's what every negotiation entails. Always.

I wonder what Hamas thought would happen when they set out on 7 October to do what they did.

I'm sure there are many upstanding members of the IDF, they are "just following orders" after all.

Another Nazi reference, you guys just can't help yourselves.

The combatant to civilian death rate in Gaza is somewhere between 1:1.1 and 1:1.5 which is very very low in war zones with high civilian populations like Gaza. I think the Israeli govt. Is doing what they can to avoid civilian casualties but it's very difficult. And there will be some members of the IDF, like any army who are bad and don't behave as they should but I can tell you the people I know in the IDF are fathers with children of their own who hate that there are any civilian deaths but they are fighting to defend their country, to keep their own families safe.*

Just focusing on kids, the UN reports on Children and Armed Conflict over the last 18 years show that no other conflicts killed a higher number of children in one year. This does not include those among nearly 20,000 people who are missing. tens of thousands of living children are missing limbs or have been orphaned or otherwise traumatized.

Nobody knows the combatant to civilian rate. You are just repeating propaganda. Even Israeli steadfast supporters like the US agree that the civilian death rate is too high. I'm sure there are many upstanding members of the IDF, they are "just following orders" after all.

All humans want to live in safety with their loved ones, but peace won't be found in bombs, destruction and despair.

@Kendodd there was a very interesting News night on R4 with a number of commentators. One suggested that the starting point for a settlement might be "what sacrifices" is each side prepared to make, rather than "what demands".

Greater Israel with citizenship rights for West Bank and Gaza Palestinians. with seven million Palestinians (and a higher birth rate) and seven million Israelis, Israel will soon, no longer, be the 'Jewish state'.

I wonder how this country would look? Would it be a thriving democracy, and safe for Jewish people, women, the LGB community?
I think it would at best go alogn the lines of Lebanon. At best.
At worst, 7 October was a preview.

So what do future generations of the Iranian regime do with the likes of us if Israel falls

Quite. Does Israel realize this?

They need to be able to have equal rights of return to their own homes and to be entitled to citizenship just as Jewish citizens are. It's a ridiculous state of affairs which can only be compared to South Africa before Mandela.

They unfortunately need to accept that this is no longer their home and that they don't have citizenship of Israel. Othewise the conflict is going to be ongoing, and it's predominantly the Palestinians that suffer.

Israel however will not be able to count on long term support of the west.

I think, because the pro-Palestinians are so loud about it, that people underestimate the quiet support for Israel. Not necessarily Netanyahu obviously, but support for a country designated as a Jewish homeland.

I also don't understand why there are a number of countries who are Muslim states, based on Sharia, yet one Jewish state is apparently one too many.

And there in lies a problem for Israel as a 'Jewish state'. The way I see it there are three main options.

1. Forever war. Israel however will not be able to count on long term support of the west.
2. Two state solution. I don't see much appetite for this and given current situation, can't see it bringing peace anyway. It would however remove any arguments that attacks on Israel are somehow legitimate and think it's the best hope.
3. Greater Israel with citizenship rights for West Bank and Gaza Palestinians. with seven million Palestinians (and a higher birth rate) and seven million Israelis, Israel will soon, no longer, be the 'Jewish state'.

Israel can't just be the Jewish homeland. Palestinians live there too and it's their own country.

Israel is the Jewish homeland though. Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza. I'm sure any rational person hopes that these two areas will be a functioning and fully-fledged country living in peace alongside Israel one day soon.
Arab Israelis live safely in Israel, and hopefully one day Jewish Palestinians can likewise live safely in Palestine.

The generation of today who are the leaders of tomorrow will not be arming Israel so that they can continue to use devastating bombs so liberally without a care in the world at how many innocent people they murder. Most certainly not!

Yes it is! There was a thread discussing this on a different board where posters thankfully could see it for what it was. A genocide! You only get the genocide deniers on here.

@Hunglikeapolevaulter Israel can't just be the Jewish homeland. Palestinians live there too and it's their own country.
They need to be able to have equal rights of return to their own homes and to be entitled to citizenship just as Jewish citizens are. It's a ridiculous state of affairs which can only be compared to South Africa before Mandela.

If you read the link to Wikipedia further you can see that having no right of return

Well yes, the idea is that Israel is the Jewish homeland.

It essentially means that Palestinians born outside Israel have to be granted citizenship in their own country

What country do you mean, Israel or Palestine? Your posts are blurring the two somewhat.

‘Between 2020 and 2022, the average rate of infant mortality among Arabs (5.1 per 1,000 live births) was more than twice as high as the equivalent rate among Jews (1.9). Within Arab society, the infant mortality rate among Muslims (5.3) was considerably higher than the rate among Druze (3.1) and much higher than the rate among Christians (1.9).
Life expectancy in Arab society has continued to rise, thanks to improvements in various health indicators, but there remains a significant gap between Arabs and Jews: Life expectancy for men and women in Arab society are now identical to life expectancy for men and women in Jewish society two decades ago.’

https://en.idi.org.il/arab-society/2023/?chapter=55095

@Hunglikeapolevaulter I think you'll find I've already pointed out the hostages who took Palestinians to hospital!!
If you read the link to Wikipedia further you can see that having no right of return as Palestinian refugee is identified as problematic especially as settlers from anywhere in the world who are Jewish have an automatic right to Israeli citizenship. It essentially means that Palestinians born outside Israel have to be granted citizenship in their own country and aren't considered automatically eligible. Whereas children of Jewish Israeli parents born outside Israel are automatically citizens.
This is not an equal society.

In what way is this called for?

Is the definition of a combatant as loose as that of an anti-semite?