What would Keir Starmer do if a group of Norwegians supported by the Norwegian government invaded tomorrow killing thousands?

Oh yes 100% agree, he is making Gaza uninhabitable, tbh he already has, some of the land will be be cleared and set aside for settlements.

In the north, the policy seems to be one of "get out whilst you can, bombing any one left, no supplies in"

Any other country would be sanctioned to the hilt.

Man's inhumanity to man.
I despair.

This is where I don’t entirely agree with you.
By systematically targeting educational, healthcare and other civilian facilities, Netanyahu is trying to destroy 2 million people, cheered on by most Israelis and their supporters around the world. Not kill each and every one of them as indeed that’s not possible, but he is breaking down that society to a point where it cannot recover.
Tens of thousands dead.
Hundreds of thousands injured, disabled and malnourished.
Few families not torn apart in some way.
Literally everyone traumatized.
Houses and neighbourhoods flattened.
There are few if any modern examples of a human catastrophe of this scale.

He knows he cannot kill 2m people but what he can do is divide Gaza, force the 2m/those left into an even smaller area, against the Egyptian border.

His aim is to put settlers into the north of Gaza, then do the same to the south, forcing them into Egypt.

The world may have called BS but they are still arming Israel to the teeth, he is acting with impunity.

Sadly it appears Netanyahu is trying to do exactly this. Exterminate all of them. Otherwise the scale of the attacks and the consistent targeting of civilian infrastructure is just inexplicable. (Yes human shields yadda yadda… not sure who still believes that nonsense argument, especially after they have tried to use it in relation to UN peacekeeping forces in Lebanon 😂. The world has called bullshit on this ten times over)

Exactly this.

The level of the attack each side inflict on each is very different though isn't it?

There maybe 100s of jewish families wanting revenge against Hamas etc but there are now 10s of 1000s of Palestinian ones who will hate the very existence of Israel.

Netanyahu cannot kill them all or subdue the Palestinian "cause"

Quite, and Ive made repeated posts that the context for everything in the ME is IMO at least 150 years of geopolitics - arguably since the Crimean War.

Something we don't touch much on in these threads is the normalisation and desensitisation that such massive trauma must inflict on all those living with this day in day out.

For anyone living under the constant threat of attack the desire for relief must be enormous. At the same time a child that has grown up amongst the death of loved ones and as witness to utter destruction and maiming is going to be very incredibly vulnerable. That mix of anger, desensitisation and trauma is going to be toxic.

It doesn't matter whether which prism you look at the current events in the ME it's a shit show.

I'm fully acquainted with the history of the region, dating back thousands of years. And each and every war and conflict up until the present day.

There are a number of posters on this thread arguing along the lines of who can blame the Palestinians if they're raised to want to kill Jews. Ok I agree, but the reverse applies - who can blame Israel for retaliating against those who constantly attack them.

Who has said that?

You need to realise that pre 7/10 the situation in Palestine was a series of wars, raids, attacks, stabbings, bombing, invasions, land grabs etc etc etc going back to the 1940s...

I've never heard any widespread view that defend the awful things that Hamas did or even mitigate but equally blowing the eyes out of children with shrapnel cannot be defended either but it is, posters & uk/usa governments defend the IDFs actions time and time again.... even when they killed their own hostages when they were surrendering or attacking the UN.

Of course it has to be.

@Auvergne63 I completely agree that nothing happens in a vacuum as long as it is applied to both sides.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Putting an event into context does not excuses it. It merely explains it. We should be allowed to do this without being accused of defending the horrors of 07/10.

@Daftasabroom and yet post after post on here declares that the vile Hamas attacks of October 7 must be seen in "context"

@JaneDoeHere
Israel has a lower death toll because they invest in protecting their citizens, Gaza, Lebanon have higher death tolls because the terrorists ruling their countries don’t care and want a higher death toll.

JaneDoehere, I think that another reason (possibly the main one) for the death toll of Israel's adversaries being greater than those of Israel might be something to do with the fact that the nation has at its disposal some of the world's most effective ground-based killing machinery. It also has an air force that can fly and deliver rockets, missiles and shells virtually unhindered. These factors, coupled with Netanyahu's lack of restraint, are probably the real reasons for the highly asymmetric casualty rates.

Depends. In this hypothetical scenario, have we been bombing and sniping civilians, bulldozing homes, depriving people of water and basic freedoms and generally "mowing the grass" for decades?

I don't know what Keir Starmer would do, but I don't think it would involve pulverising tens of thousands of civilians, sniping kids in the head, raping detainees with implements or assassinating 5yo girls trapped in cars begging for help.

The idea that the current actions in Gaza, the Wedt Bank and Lebanon are making the Israeli people safer is crazy.

This will be a forever war until Israel accepts that Palestinians exist. Many states have borders with countries that hate them, deal with terrorists and fanatics, but no other state acts like that gives them the right to deny the right of their neighbours to exist.
Israel will have to find a way to made peace with its enemies and stop setting its moral compass by the actions of terrorists.

The many historical wrongs meted on Jews can in no way be used to justify the destruction Israel has subjected the Palestinians to.

@puttyinboots those things all apply to Jews also.

They have been evicted again and again from their homes throughout the ages, persecuted for thousands of years and of course in recent years subjected to constant rocket attacks and suicide bombings by Hamas and Hezbollah.

I find it incredible that people can blame hamas for Palestinian children apparently being raised to hate Jews. Do you ever wonder that perhaps if you grew up with the trauma of being constantly bombed, homes destroyed, your family killed on top of the wealth of war crimes being committed by Israel, that in fact it may be Israel who is fuelling further terrorism and hatred by indiscriminately killing and inflicting crimes against humanity on families and children relentlessly for being Palestinian, not to mention the apartheid

I don't see the point in further discussion with yourself as you seem to have taken a very black and white, goodies vs baddies view on the whole conflict.

He would tell them his father is a toolmaker, put on a suit that someone else bought him and then explain how hard the job is. While failing to fulfill hs prime role to defend the naion. Utterly clueless and spineless. Macron seems to have forgotten that Hez killed a group of French soldiers and the Israelis sorted it out. Macrons response has been to criticize the Israelis. Pathetic individual. Seems to be a competition among European leaders to ignore facts. The West needs to back Israel while it gets rid of those who have highjacked Middle eastern states to the detriment of those who live in them and reduce the threat to Europe.

So you are once again calling me an antisemitic. I take it personally because I am one of these posters you referred too.
Why are you not answered my questions? That's a question in itself.

I'll try again

I know all these posters claiming Israel has responded disproportionately would feel differently if they were the Israeli victims. Yes I'm sure people would it is difficult to be objective in that scenario. Which is why there are global bodies to make those decisions not the individuals impacted. Plus it is not just posters here claiming Israel has responded disproportionately is it?

You can attempt to claim the moral high ground but if it were you, you wouldn’t want the constant bombs and rockets and threats either. Of course no one would want that. It isn't a moral high ground though to call for a proportionate response it's the law.

In my opinion, it seems that many people who won’t defend Israel are simply upset that Israel protects its citizens.
I seriously doubt that, why would anyone not want Israel to protect its own citizens? People have an issue with so many other innocent civilians being killed.

If Israel was run by terrorist groups and embedded their poison amongst the population and didn’t invent and use the iron dome and have bomb shelters and security, there would be 1000s more deaths.
No one has a crystal ball but yes there likely would be and I doubt anyone would stand back and watch them being killed in that scenario

In that case when Lebanon are launching rockets and it kills 800 Israelis instead of 2, would posters and pro-Palestine supporters be happy? No of course not fgs

Because this is what it comes down to. A numbers game. Israel has a lower death toll because they invest in protecting their citizens, Gaza, Lebanon have higher death tolls because the terrorists ruling their countries don’t care and want a higher death toll.
That is part of it but the other part is the disproportionate response and as I've already mentioned in a scenario where citizens are not being protected by their own governments and their attackers there are humanitarian laws in place to protect them.

As always, this will be lost on many posters here because a lot of you just do t like Israel or Jewish people.
Not true most just don't like seeing innocent civilians die

I am afraid that I disagree and that Gaza children are brought up to hate.

I recognise not all Gaza’s, but many. I think any dehumanising is down to Hamas and their beliefs really.