To say that to criticise the actions of the Israeli state…

Gently, your point on dehumanisation of Palestinians is valid. To make it without crossing into Anti-Semitism consider referencing it as one of the conditions described by genocide experts and historians that is on the path to a possible genocide happening.

(Caveat- although I am Jewish, my opinion does not speak ‘for all Jews’ - I hate that I feel the need to say this.)

“The fact that when Hamas won the election in 2006 they did so on a platform that included a commitment to eradicate Israel would suggests that Palestinians are not all that interested in a two-state solution either.”

The 2006 platform was a marked departure from their earlier ideology. It did not include a commitment to “eradicate Israel” (that was their earlier ideology) but a commitment to resist the occupation (already deemed illegal in earlier UN resolutions) with a clear and repeated commitment to 1967 borders (2 state solution). That is how they got the votes.

The original 1988 goal of destroy Israel is both watered down and vague phrases that pop up here and there- e.g. “without recognising Israel” and “until all of historic Palestine is free.” A study by Cambridge University Press on this transition of Hamas from boycott to participation, points out this is largely because a more moderate faction in favour of a two state solution became dominant over the earlier one which even fought against the Oslo accords of the 1990s. https://www.cmi.no/publications/file/4482-explaining-hamass-changing-electoral-strategy.pdf

Even so, 2006 is as far from us as 1988 is from 2006, so it is wisest imho to gauge Palestinian interest and intentions based on current events and words than those said a generation or two ago.

I mean I'm not far off...you think the actions of Israel are ironic considering the holocaust during ww2. We all understand what you meant....it's not especially tricky to understand and it is still deemed to be an anti semetic thing to say....not by just by me specifically but by the official definitions of anti semetism..

You can be pro Palestinian without saying such things as plenty of posters manage

When someone describes the atrocities Hamas committed on 7/10 as an “one-off attack with limited reach” they’re deliberately trying to minimise Hamas’ actions.

I watched a statement Konstantin Kisin (Triggernometry) released couple of days ago, where he talks about 7/10 in comparison to 9/11. It really puts the numbers into perspective:

“If we take 9/11, the most impactful terrorist attack in living memory, that shook the world’s dominant superpower to its very core, we see that 2,977 people were killed in a country of 285 million people.
On October 7th approximately 1,200 people were killed in a country of just 9 million people. (…)
So if October 7th was Israel’s 9/11, on a per capita basis only 100 people would have been killed.
In other words, October 7th was at least 12 times as bad as 9/11, and that’s before accounting for the fact that Hamas took hundreds of hostages many of whom have been killed since.”

You thought using that trope would highlight the fact that you think it's ironic that what the Jewish people went through during the holocaust is somehow being repeated by Israel in Gaza? Right?

Wrong. What I think is ironic is that the hideous dehumanising of people, through language and actions, which led to such appalling slaughter in the Holocaust, is now being demonstrated towards the Palestinians by some of those whose families suffered themselves from the consequences of such brutality.

From an article in the Guardian:

Israeli political, military and religious leaders have at different times described Palestinians as “a cancer”, “vermin”, and called for them to be “annihilated”. They are frequently portrayed as backward and a burden on the country.

When Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant, ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip with “no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed”, he said: “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”

Hamas may be thus described, but not the civilians who are bearing the brunt. Are they also ‘animals’?

Who has called for a Hamas state?

I’m glad this thread has been started.

I am Jewish. I didn’t reveal that on earlier threads on which I have supported a ceasefire and criticised the current Israeli government’s & military’s actions.

Recently, I agreed with a poster who remarked that MN has become a place where it seems like even mild criticism of Israel’s government and military actions triggers accusations of anti-Semitism. They lamented how this then results in shutting down conversations that are worth having.

I was then accused of being antisemitic myself, my posts on that thread reported as anti-Semitic and inflammatory were deleted, and I received an email from MNHQ saying I needed to take this on board or they might have to suspend my account. They said one of the posters who had reported a post was also Jewish.

I responded letting them know I am also Jewish and they should understand that even Jewish people can have a difference of opinion on what is and is not antisemitic.

I have since name changed as the whole episode has disturbed me. I should not have to say ‘I am Jewish” at the start of any post even mildly critical of Israel to shield myself.

Can't say I'm qualified to answer but Professor Khalil Shikaki, of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, has spent over 3 decades studying this subject and has said that "The support for Hamas comes from various sources, but the most important one is because Palestinians share Hamas' values. They will support Hamas for that, even if Hamas makes wrong moves here or there."

The fact that when Hamas won the election in 2006 they did so on a platform that included a commitment to eradicate Israel would suggests that Palestinians are not all that interested in a two-state solution either.

And if both sides don't want peace then that means one side or the other will have to be removed from the equation for 'peace' to be achieved.

No your post wasn't nuanced. It's pretty easy to understand. You thought using that trope would highlight the fact that you think it's ironic that what the Jewish people went through during the holocaust is somehow being repeated by Israel in Gaza? Right?

That is disgusting and as a pp said you should be ashamed.

There are plenty of pro Palestine posters on here who are able to get their opinion across without resorting to such behaviour.

Well that’s your problem. You’re not actually listening to what I say. I don’t think I’m clever, but I do think you’re being stupid by metaphorically sticking your fingers in your ears and saying you can’t hear anyone who you perceive as disagreeing with you, when they actually don’t! That’s the irony. I think any nuanced arguments are lost on you, unfortunately.

This is yet another ingenuous post the same as one of about 3,000 posts exactly the same

That‘s my feeling too. The majority of threads on the CITME board seem to be cliticising Israel (while often complaining about allegedly not being allowed to do that).

Yes and in 2009 the UN considered both Gaza and the west bank to still be occupied by Israel, and Israel still doesn't recognise the State of Palestine

Of course not, but neither do Israel or they would have handed back the land they're illegally occupying

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. In 2006 Hamas won the election and has remained in power ever since.

And you think hamas or Iran want this, that's cute.

@Shakeoffyourchains and is that support due to genuine belief in the cause, or because of what has been happening in the region for the last several decades, where they feel there is no alternative?

This did not start on October 7, and it will take a long time to sort out. But peace needs to be the aim.

But research from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research & Pew Research Centre show that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas.

To remove them would go against the people's wishes, so are we saying it's ok to enforce a regime change in Gaza and oppress it's people or not?

Eh?

Direct your anger at Iran. They refuse to see peace deals between Israel and Saudi. Stop being distracted by social media virtue signalling.

And you this Hamas or Iran want that, that's cute.

We don't want a Hamas state, what makes you think that? We want a Palestinian state with no interference from Israel or Hamas

@Tattletwat so it's okay to generalise the entire population of Iran?

I see how it is.

FWIW, I do not think the current Iranian regime is right either. But that doesn't mean I paint all Iranians with the same brush. This is a highly nuanced issue and any peace talks will likely take years. But these talks need to begin, and soon

YANBU, at all. And it should be said more. It seems people are unable of holding two thoughts at the same time...

These terrorists are being financed and aided by Iran, which is a woman hating shithole so yes I assume it will be turned into one.

That isn't islamaphobic that is the people you are dealing with.