To say that to criticise the actions of the Israeli state…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/14/israeli-forces-in-gaza-use-civilians-as-human-shields-against-possible-booby-traps

Seems both sides then like using Palestinians as human shields.
Another international law Israel has broken

Very good question @Notaflippinclue

How do you eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah whilst they hide behind civilians and why don't Hamas and Hezbollah warn Israelies when they fire rockets into Israel

Well if hamas and hezbola would stop breaking international law by using civilians as human shields, using hospitals and schools as bases all of which are war crimes and crimes against humanity then I'm sure that very few civilians would have been killed.
If you want to talk about international laws being broken then you have to look at both sides instead of just picking on 1 side ie Israel.

Me too @User37482

It’s John Aziz @ aziz0nomics
hamza @ howidyhamza

John Aziz was interviewed by Yasmine Mohammed on her podcast about growing up in Gaza. It’s an interesting listen.

You may not agree with everything they say (a lot of Palestinians on twitter who are anti-hamas don’t agree with each other a lot of the time tbf). But I think they are pretty fair. They are deeply concerned about Palestinian rights and they don’t hide their thoughts on Hamas. You will find quite a few Palestinians who loathe Israel but also unequivocally condemn 7th October.

I don’t think we hear enough about the Gazan perspective. There was a demonstration demanding the release of Israeli hostages. Didn’t see that on tv at all. There are Palestinians who condemned Hamas’s actions and we don’t hear about that either. There was some coverage of the poor anti-hamas campaigner who had his arms and legs broken but the bbc didn’t want to say it was Hamas when it clearly was.

I feel that a lot of westerns don’t actually want to see that Palestinians have their own thoughts about what the future should look like. It suits people who would demonise them and it suits people who would claim that they are protesting on their behalf but are actually supporting Hamas NOT the people of Gaza.

I also don’t think they consider that people may not agree with Hamas but also don’t want to get shot so stay quiet. If Hamas were genuinely popular they would have held an election. I genuinely believe that. If Hezbollah were genuinely popular they wouldn’t need a militia, they could have instead laid down their arms and joined the Lebanese army.

I think it’s so important to amplify these voices.

Yes, it's quite a rabbit hole.

Who is this Gazan peace activist? Brave man.

And i guess you could say Russia, Iran and China are supporting Hamas with weapons and financially. So why can't Israel also be supported in their fight
against terrorism? That Palestinian civilians have been killed lies at the door of Hamas, using their people as human shields. Hamas would think nothing of blowing the entire Western world to bits if they could, whether we sided with them or not. By withdrawing assistance from Israel, we would be giving terrorists our support.

I follow a Gazan peace activist (he was part of the protests against Hamas in Gaza) on twitter and he listed all the islamist inspired groups across africa and the middle east. It was interesting because he didn’t go straight to blaming the west which is often the case. He seems to see it as a failure in MENA and jihadi mindset.

The thing is because the west is primarily secular in governance I think people struggle with the idea that people are genuinely religiously motivated and devout enough to do mad shit.

I was listening to a podcast about hezbollah (one of the presenters is half lebanese) and he talked about how Hezbollah actually visited Iran to seek permission to form a political party in Lebanon. I’m an atheist so I find this fascinating. Interestingly also communism/marxist thought is a regular feature in this area as well. The Amal group that hezbollah grew out of was basically formed because young shiites met a bunch of PLO members who were steeped in marxist thinking. Similar in Iran, where the islamists eventually started murdering the communists who had allied with them. Then you had the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt who were virulently antisemitic (they are the ones who made friends with the Nazis of all people) and who are now banned for good reason in many countries but I don’t think they ever pretended to be communists just pan arab nationalists (I think, can’t remember).

Theres a long complicated interconnected web of history and ideology across MENA. It’s worth reading about and it’s not simple. Ofcourse interactions with the west and russia specifically shaped this, just as much as they have shaped the west. I would hesitate though to suggest they don’t have agency. In many places the Islamists of various stripes actually beat the secularists and the socialists. Fairly sure the ba’at party in Iraq were originally socialists as well (think I read Yemen was communist at one point)

But I’m not an expert. I’d actually say the soviet union had a bigger impact on political thought than the west did in the middle-east.

They is much evidence of there anti Israeli bias if you care to do a quick search. I wish they were not.

Such a child-like yet passive-aggressive response. You do not know what I will or will not do

This.

They don't read any details or history. They parrot soundbites

Not only is that incorrect it's also disgusting.

@OneRarelySeesABrazierTheseDays , I wish it were a ridiculous concept. There is much on this issue readily available to read but to make it easier for you to educate yourself I’ve found you one. I’ll be surprised if you bother to read it but at least I tried.

https://chrissmith.house.gov/uploadedfiles/antisem_anti-israel_hearing_hillel_neuer.pdf

Yeah I wasn’t commenting on that… there are only 300,000 Jews in the UK yet every poster here seems to have a Jewish friend…

Of course lots of Israelis disagree with their government and recognise their actions just make them less safe. A lot of Israelis have also tried to help and protect aid workers going into Gaza. This is on the news.

Israeli citizens have protested against their government. It's entirely possible that people don't agree with the actions of the government.

It’s amazing how many people on this thread seem to have Jewish friends who absolutely agree with their perspective…

@ChallahPlaiter I think we both know the answer to that! and god help everyone if Trump gets in in November!

Oh well on that I wouldn’t like to comment!

@ChallahPlaiter yes, Russia is another huge issue especially with regards to Iran and their backing there.

But the USA also has a terrible track record in the Middle East and I do question whether their involvement is genuine for the good of Israel, or to stoke tensions and benefit from that

It would be more surprising if the US wasn’t involved considering the influence that Russia has always exerted on what happens in the region.

@Dulra it's just one example. It's pretty extreme but she views herself as an activist.

I'm not on twitter I'm sure it's cesspit, I was commenting on your own friend blocking you which is something very different and irrational

@Dulra you only have to look at social media to see it though, and admittedly it is mainly coming from one "side".

If you post anything on Twitter these days and it gets any sort of interaction you're expected to say something about Gaza, you're expected to constantly speak up and be an activist.