Offer made to Israel

What guidelines were broken for @browserintobuyer post to be deleted? It was a good post.

@browserintobuyer is there any other country in the world under your moral microscope, in the same way that Israel is?

Of course there are. But let's be honest it's only a select few that are committing the kind of occupation and massive bombardment that results in mass non- combatant casualties on the scale that Israel is.

Thank you.

@mouthpipette your OP has no questions in it. Happy to leave it there as we seem to be the last 2 people in the world talking about this 'offer'.

Maybe I'm just a little less passive

Ok, great, so exactly what are you actively doing to get this amazing deal over the line? You'll be a dead cert for a Nobel prize, that's for sure.

Eh? Why would he sit in a room with me? I haven't prejudged him, I'm judging him on the 'offer' that has been reported. Which contains absolutely nothing. This conversation is moving into surreal territory now, but if a real proposal comes out great, we'll all watch with interest I'm sure.

So much for Israel is a democracy that has free speech. It is if you are Jewish. Not so much if you aren't despite being a citizen.

Arab Israelis are often treated as lesser civilians and don't even try and pretend that it doesn't happen. Just look at how this poor Arab teacher was blindfolded and arrested today because maniac like Ben Gvir has been given this much authority by the Israeli government.
Are you trying to tell me that a Jewish Israeli would be treated as such in the same circumstances? Ofcourse not

https://www.timesofisrael.com/arrest-of-arab-israeli-woman-over-tiktok-clip-raises-questions-about-police-conduct/amp/

We're still waiting to find out what he means. He was literally on the news yesterday and didn't even mention it so I guess even he has quietly dropped it.

What do you mean " little or no consensus on the 2000 negotiations." ?

In 2000 at Camp David, Israel offered the "Palestinians" 97% of what they had asked for, plus agreements to land swaps that would have raised that to 100%. The terrorist liar Arafat was ready to go ahead, then changed his mind and walked out. The first intifada (already planned) broke out.

What I do know, [as would you, if you could but clear your mind of momentum propaganda] is - that In '48, six Arab states invaded Israel and there was a war until 1949. In one place, Lydda, the Israelis forced the Arabs to leave (in the middle of fighting). In all other cases, the Arab Liberation Army and the Arab Higher Committee (chaired by an Arab Nazi who had worked for the Nazis in Berlin) ordered the Arab population to leave until they won the war. Well, they lost the war and the Arabs became refugees. Those Arabs who stayed were welcomed by the Jews and are full Israeli citizens. The Israelis only pushed people out in two places, and pleaded with Arabs to stay in places like Haifa and Jaffa (all well recorded fact). They did this in a time of war, when there was danger to Arabs amidst the fighting. Later, not one Arab country would allow Palestinian Arab refugees to take refuge in their own territory, and that remains true to the present day. In every other corner of the world, refugees from WW2 and later have been happily given citizenship in other countries. If you have complaints, go make them to the Arabs who betrayed their brethren from the start.

The Jews were more than happy to stay within the boundaries established by the UN, but the Arabs were determined to take even that away from them. I advise you to put down the momentum pamphlet, or listening to that ignoramus clown George Galloway bellowing in halting sentences & get a copy of Efraim Karsh's serious and well documented history of this period, 'Palestine Betrayed', and read it. I bet you won't though - far better to march alongside Jihadis that shout "Hamas Hamas, jews to the gas" along with all your fellow "anti-racists".

Israel special forces were operating in Lebanon for months, taking down missile sites and tunnels without massive loss of life to non-combatants., before the full ground invasion and bombing of Beirut.

@browserintobuyer don't be so disingenuous. You know as well as I do that there is little or no consensus on the 2000 negotiations.

You also know that the vast majority of the 700,000 Palestinians displaced in 47/48 was due to Jewish nationalists and then the Israeli military.

Would Iran continue to build a nuclear weapon pointed at Israel?
I think that Israel believe that if they stand down from their position of strength then forces around them will build up again and within a decade we will be back here again, perhaps with even less support from the West as the muslim population here grows in influence.

It could not have been done using intelligence or it would have been already.

Some of it was, with the pager attacks.

The sooner Hamas and Hezbollah are removed or eradicated then the sooner a peaceful settlement can be found

Israel have been in Gaza for a year now, how many Hamas members have they arrested/eliminated? How many more are they looking for?

Could much of this have been done using intelligence?

Given that neither Hamas or Hezbollah support a two state solution and neither does Israel support a two state solution whilst Hamas and Hezbollah are in existence then surely the solution is the removal or failing that the eradication of Hamas and Hezbollah with the minimal civilian casualties possible.

Now in a functioning democracy this could be done by the Palestinian and Lebanese voters but I think it would be fair to say that this is not possible plus a number of Palestinian and Lebanese actively support these organisations.

But for those Palestinians and Lebanese welcoming the removal of Hamas and Hezbollah maybe there is a solution in denying where possible assistance, food and shelter to them and also tipping off the Israelis about their locations.

The sooner Hamas and Hezbollah are removed or eradicated then the sooner a peaceful settlement can be found

Israel did not force any exodus of Palestinians in 1947 48

The vast majority of 'Palestinians' who left during the 1947-48 wars did so on the express command of the Arab Higher Committee and the Arab Liberation Army, who wanted them out of the way when 5 Arab armies invaded Israel in 1948. Before that, the civil war of 1947, started entirely by the Palestinians themselves, prompted increasing numbers of their fellow countrymen to flee, first the rich, then the middle classes. All of this and more is well recorded in historical sources: it's a pity so many people get this the wrong way around. .

The reason the Pal's don't have a state is that they have rejected one every time they've been offered one by Israel. In 1947, they rejected a straight offer by the UN. In 2000, Arafat walked away from a deal with would've given the Palestinians 97% of what they wanted, and possibly 100%. There have been at least a dozen occasions when they have turned their backs, and for 65 years they have said they want all of the region, to expel or kill the Jews. 'No peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel' (Khartoum Declaration 1967).
'There is no solution except through Jihad' (Hamas Charter, 1989).

Rather than parroting Jeremy Corbyn-level nonsense, you should read some serious historical books and think carefully.

Which "occupation" are you claiming is illegal ?

There is no "Apartheid" in Israel, that's just antisemitic dogma you've picked up. Arab Israelis have identical rights with Jewish Israelis, rights that are guaranteed by law. Arabs serve in parliament, as judges (even on the Supreme Court), as diplomats, academics, scientists, gay rights activists, and on and on. Not one of those things was true for blacks in South Africa where there was actual apartheid. You're spreading patently false information and that really ought to worry you.

PS. If you really want to see actual Apartheid, go to any Arab controlled town by/PLO/HAMAS /Hizballah. You can witness that there are NO Jews and Christians are persecuted, expelled or even killed.

The violence in the region up until 1947 pales by comparison of what has come since.

In my opinion the UN. UN broker peace, redraw boundaries and put peacekeepers on the ground. Israel pay reparations and rebuild Gaza and elections are held to form a new government.