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Conflict in the Middle East
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quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 10:31

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 13/12/2024 10:17

Bombing is somewhat insecure incineration
You don’t say! Especially since most of the damage from a bomb is due to kinetic energy not thermal.

Depends on the bomb I imagine.

Dulra · 13/12/2024 10:18

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:56

Bombing is somewhat insecure incineration. Perhaps the risk analysis was; we can leave them but there's a high chance they will be used against us or we can try to get access to destroy them safely but by the time that's agreed (if ever) they will have been removed elsewhere.

Not privy to those decisions myself, or to the nature of the 'weapons' being destroyed. Rather a lot of fuss was made about the USA leaving viable weapons behind in Afghanistan.

Very early days after Assad's abandonment of Syria, in a notoriously unstable region who knows what will stabilise it. Assad & Hussein & the Ayatollahs create stability of sorts, but at what cost?

Perhaps the risk analysis was; we can leave them but there's a high chance they will be used against us or we can try to get access to destroy them safely but by the time that's agreed (if ever) they will have been removed elsewhere.

So the risk analysis was we will bomb them to ensure we protect Israelis from a hypothetical risk but put Syrians living in the area at definite risk due to bombing them (as outlined in the article I posted) nice.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 13/12/2024 10:17

Bombing is somewhat insecure incineration
You don’t say! Especially since most of the damage from a bomb is due to kinetic energy not thermal.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 13/12/2024 10:14

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:31

Well that was just silly.
Creating and stockpiling enough to wipe out a village requires a little more finesse.

Obviously chemical synthesis means something different to you.

Well not that much finesse. It’s not exactly modern technology.

Scirocco · 13/12/2024 10:01

Secure incineration of chemical weapons isn't just setting them on fire as a whole building, so bombing them really isn't just a 'somewhat insecure' variant of the process.

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:56

Scirocco · 13/12/2024 09:44

Bombing chemical weapons stores risks setting off the weapons (which can then cause substantial harm). It's generally considered more sensible to secure them and use appropriate safety techniques to destroy them. Secure incineration is one preferred method.

Bombing is somewhat insecure incineration. Perhaps the risk analysis was; we can leave them but there's a high chance they will be used against us or we can try to get access to destroy them safely but by the time that's agreed (if ever) they will have been removed elsewhere.

Not privy to those decisions myself, or to the nature of the 'weapons' being destroyed. Rather a lot of fuss was made about the USA leaving viable weapons behind in Afghanistan.

Very early days after Assad's abandonment of Syria, in a notoriously unstable region who knows what will stabilise it. Assad & Hussein & the Ayatollahs create stability of sorts, but at what cost?

Dulra · 13/12/2024 09:46

Scirocco · 13/12/2024 09:44

Bombing chemical weapons stores risks setting off the weapons (which can then cause substantial harm). It's generally considered more sensible to secure them and use appropriate safety techniques to destroy them. Secure incineration is one preferred method.

Yes that's what article I posted suggests thanks

Dulra · 13/12/2024 09:45

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:31

Well that was just silly.
Creating and stockpiling enough to wipe out a village requires a little more finesse.

Obviously chemical synthesis means something different to you.

I don't know much about chemical weapons, science was never my strong point, but this article from 2013 does outline the dangers associated with bombing them as opposed to disposing of them properly under controlled conditions

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/bombing-chemical-weapons-sites-could-endanger-civilians-cause-environmental-catastrophe-experts-warn

Bombing Chemical Weapons Sites Could Endanger Civilians, Cause Environmental Catastrophe, Experts Warn

EmbedVideo(7267, 482, 304); Secretary of State John Kerry on Friday afternoon said that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has used chemical weapons on his own people multiple times this year. WASHINGTON -- You simply can't safely bomb a chemical weapon...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/bombing-chemical-weapons-sites-could-endanger-civilians-cause-environmental-catastrophe-experts-warn

Scirocco · 13/12/2024 09:44

Bombing chemical weapons stores risks setting off the weapons (which can then cause substantial harm). It's generally considered more sensible to secure them and use appropriate safety techniques to destroy them. Secure incineration is one preferred method.

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:31

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 13/12/2024 09:21

You don’t? Almost gassed myself with chlorine gas after adding an ammonium based cleaner into a bleach filled toilet. If I can create chlorine gas with £1.50 worth of over the counter cleaning products from Tescos I am sure a murderous regime being funded billions by Putin could manage.

Well that was just silly.
Creating and stockpiling enough to wipe out a village requires a little more finesse.

Obviously chemical synthesis means something different to you.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 13/12/2024 09:21

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:15

You have experience of chemical synthesis?

You don’t? Almost gassed myself with chlorine gas after adding an ammonium based cleaner into a bleach filled toilet. If I can create chlorine gas with £1.50 worth of over the counter cleaning products from Tescos I am sure a murderous regime being funded billions by Putin could manage.

quantumbutterfly · 13/12/2024 09:15

Daftasabroom · 13/12/2024 08:18

I'd wondered about the efficacy of bombing chemical weapons stores. It's (sadly) not very difficult to make them anyway.

You have experience of chemical synthesis?

Daftasabroom · 13/12/2024 08:18

Scirocco · 12/12/2024 14:32

Buffer zones should usually be on a country's own land or as a mutually agreed arrangement between two countries. Also, bombing chemical weapons stores is not a particularly safe means of disposal.

I'd wondered about the efficacy of bombing chemical weapons stores. It's (sadly) not very difficult to make them anyway.

EasterIssland · 12/12/2024 20:54

Auvergne63 · 12/12/2024 18:25

So, in short, Israel is just destroying any means for Syria to defend their sovereignty, just in case.
Well, I hope Macron takes note and starts bombing Belgium, just in case.
How absurd!

glad you said Belgium and not your neighbours of the south 😆 and wouldn’t have been without a reason taking into account not that long time ago there was a terrorist group killing in south of France and north of Spain.

jokes aside , it must be consequence that assad is removed and Israel steals land (one more time). They’ve not even bothered removing themselves from Palestine so they won’t from whatever land they’re getting now

MissyB1 · 12/12/2024 18:28

Auvergne63 · 12/12/2024 18:25

So, in short, Israel is just destroying any means for Syria to defend their sovereignty, just in case.
Well, I hope Macron takes note and starts bombing Belgium, just in case.
How absurd!

Yep!
perhaps we should start bombing Russia /China/ North Korea, you know just in case…..

Auvergne63 · 12/12/2024 18:25

MissyB1 · 12/12/2024 18:14

Ha ha I watched that, well done Krishnan!

So, in short, Israel is just destroying any means for Syria to defend their sovereignty, just in case.
Well, I hope Macron takes note and starts bombing Belgium, just in case.
How absurd!

MissyB1 · 12/12/2024 18:14

JaneJeffer · 12/12/2024 17:23

You couldn't make it up

Ha ha I watched that, well done Krishnan!

JaneJeffer · 12/12/2024 17:23

You couldn't make it up

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 5)
This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 5)
This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 5)
Scirocco · 12/12/2024 14:32

Buffer zones should usually be on a country's own land or as a mutually agreed arrangement between two countries. Also, bombing chemical weapons stores is not a particularly safe means of disposal.

Daftasabroom · 12/12/2024 14:08

And as settlers move into the old buffer zone the new buffer zone will be pushed ever further outward. Encroachment.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/12/2024 01:07

Yes, it’s the divide and conquer tactic that the political and wealthy elites inflict to line their pockets. People can live peacefully together, when they aren’t being fed the propaganda of hate.

OchaLove · 12/12/2024 00:38

Zebedee999 · 11/12/2024 21:09

That whole region is a mess. Borders cross through nations/tribal areas. It's a mess. The whole area needs to be divvied up again according to nations/religions/tribal allegiances.

People of differing religions/nations etc cannot live peacefully alongside. Never have been able to and never will. It's true even here in the UK. Northern Ireland for example. Or the Scottish hating the English. Or Cornish wanting independence. No tribes can live harmoniously with others.

In USA, we live side by side peacefully. I mostly lived and worked in more diverse areas, so I can tell you at every workplace you'll find Christians, Jews, Muslims, and people from other religions or people with no religion. Same for ethnic backgrounds, we all co-exist. We live, work, shop, socialize side by side with no problems. We see we're all the same, just wanting to go along with our lives, see our kids grow up and have a future.

I have all types of friends Jews, Christians, atheists, Muslims (of course as someone from Muslim background), Blacks, Latinos, Asians, LGBTQ members. I love, appreciate and trust some members of the 'other groups' more than some members of my own 'in group'.

Of course, we see polarization in USA being install in recent years that creates division between groups for political reasons. Very much the same, how division is inflicted in the Middle East, for political reasons, for power. When this intentional division is inflicted, we argue and hate each other maybe, call each other names childishly but we keep functioning as a society altogether, side by side because nobody forces up to fight with each other (and hopefully will never). In Middle East, when intentional division is inflicted, usually it is part of a plan where world powers are looking to sustain their power or increase their power.

The root cause is not the people who can not live side by side despite differences, it's the ones who inflict this division for their benefit. So, no we don't need to be divided into further borders defined by religion or ethnicity. We just need to realize that we should say no to the ones who want to divide us.

Sorry for the long rant. But it feels very hypocritical when the same powers who pushes diversity for the many countries but claim that same diversity can not co-exist when it comes to Middle East despite its long history of co-existing together for thousands of years.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 11/12/2024 23:08

ScrollingLeaves · 11/12/2024 23:02

“grossly exaggerated”, a top prosecutor at the international criminal court (ICC) has said.

I have often wondered if in many cases the Hamas ‘control and command’ presence in hospitals in Gaza consisted of severely wounded Hamas fighters, and some unwounded bringing them in. Hardly a reason to erase a whole hospital or leave ICU babies alone to die.

That mock up drawing of the underground control compound we were shown about a year ago as being underneath a major hospital never really materialised.

Even if there were wounded Hamas in ambulances and hospitals that is still wholly permitted in the laws of armed conflict and doesn’t invalidate ambulances and hospitals legal iron clad immunity from attacks.