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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

To understand the escalation in Lebanon, we must confront what Israelis are thinking

381 replies

Gunnersforthecup · 28/09/2024 09:44

Rather good and well-informed article in the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/28/escalation-lebanon-israelis-benjamin-netanyahu-hamas-hezbollah

"It is almost certainly true that the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has political reasons for prolonging the conflict. But while a majority of Israelis would probably like a different prime minister, many don’t want to stop the war until they think that both Hamas and more particularly Hezbollah – which has tied its actions directly to Gaza – have been neutralised as serious threats.

And that is because behind both groups they see an Iran that is dedicated to their destruction...

This isn’t simply about the US and its western allies. This time the Gulf states – and most of all Saudi Arabia – are going to be key actors. The prize of normalisation with Israel has not disappeared. But the price has gone up. It will certainly include the effective containment of Iran and its allies – and an answer to real, not simply declarative, Palestinian statehood. And this time we need to make it stick. Otherwise the pain we are seeing now will not simply not go away. It will get a lot worse."

To understand the escalation in Lebanon, we must confront what Israelis are thinking | John Jenkins

Netanyahu has his own reasons for prolonging the conflict, but many Israelis still want to see Hamas and Hezbollah neutralised, says former British diplomat Sir John Jenkins

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/28/escalation-lebanon-israelis-benjamin-netanyahu-hamas-hezbollah

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blackcherryconserve · 28/09/2024 12:04

ToBeDetermined · 28/09/2024 11:53

I personally think a ceasefire with the establishment of a Palestinian state with full control over its borders, trade and so on and containment of Israeli aggression would “neutralise” Hamas and Hezbollah.

They draw their recruits from the angry survivors of Israeli indiscriminate bombings and detentions of civilians.

The IDF is also embedded deeply in the civilian communities of Israel with mandatory conscription of all young adult men and women, plus mandatory reservist status until mid40s. Hundreds of the Oct 7th victims were IDF.

That will not happen while Hamas' goal is the elimination of the Jewish state.

blackcherryconserve · 28/09/2024 12:02

TwigletsAndRadishes · 28/09/2024 11:45

So how do you achieve the neutralisation of Hamas and Hezbollah given that they are embedded deeply in the civilian communities of Gaza and Lebanon, without any risk of collateral damage to civilians and children? How?

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You don't, same as when the British bombarded Dresden in WW2. If it wasn't for Israel's Iron Dome defence system there would be thousands more civilian deaths. Israel protects its citizens wherever possible (with the possible exception of 7 October) but Hamas and Hezbollah build their tunnels where they store rockets and armoury under homes, schools etc knowing full well that civilian deaths will take place as a result.

Dulra · 28/09/2024 11:57

TwigletsAndRadishes · 28/09/2024 11:45

So how do you achieve the neutralisation of Hamas and Hezbollah given that they are embedded deeply in the civilian communities of Gaza and Lebanon, without any risk of collateral damage to civilians and children? How?

Show quote history

By sticking within international humanitarian laws by ensuring civilians are safeguarded, have access to food, water, sanitation, shelter, medical care. As I said all civilian lives matter and need to be protected and that is not the case in Gaza and hopefully won't become the case in Lebanon.

ToBeDetermined · 28/09/2024 11:53

I personally think a ceasefire with the establishment of a Palestinian state with full control over its borders, trade and so on and containment of Israeli aggression would “neutralise” Hamas and Hezbollah.

They draw their recruits from the angry survivors of Israeli indiscriminate bombings and detentions of civilians.

The IDF is also embedded deeply in the civilian communities of Israel with mandatory conscription of all young adult men and women, plus mandatory reservist status until mid40s. Hundreds of the Oct 7th victims were IDF.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 28/09/2024 11:45

Dulra · 28/09/2024 10:04

I completely understand why Israelis would want Hezbollah and Hamas neutralised. I am not sure many rational thinking people wouldn't. They are evil barbaric unpredictable terrorist organisations that have no place in a modern progressive world. What I can't understand or accept is the complete disregard for innocent human lives in achieving that aim. All innocent lives matter and need to be protected

So how do you achieve the neutralisation of Hamas and Hezbollah given that they are embedded deeply in the civilian communities of Gaza and Lebanon, without any risk of collateral damage to civilians and children? How?

Dulra · 28/09/2024 10:04

I completely understand why Israelis would want Hezbollah and Hamas neutralised. I am not sure many rational thinking people wouldn't. They are evil barbaric unpredictable terrorist organisations that have no place in a modern progressive world. What I can't understand or accept is the complete disregard for innocent human lives in achieving that aim. All innocent lives matter and need to be protected