To understand the escalation in Lebanon, we must confront what Israelis are thinking

This is an excellent article

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2024/oct/04/israel-told-not-alone-but-year-war-isolated?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

No problem!
I didn’t even mention that particular poster in my original comment.
I was just saying how some people on here seem to be determined to minimise anything Hamas or Hezbollah are doing, because that’s something I’ve noticed.
I find that attitude a bit strange, since I wouldn’t describe any rockets fired at anyone, whether sophisticated or not, as "inconsequential".

Sorry @inamarina , I missed that you'd already responded exactly the same but better 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes, in her defence it wasn't Hezbollah's rockets that are apparently inconsequential, it was Hamas' rockets that were deemed inconsequential and more of an annoyance to Israel. That's not a direct quote, but I am using the same words they used. With regards to Hezbollah it was something about how they haven't been firing any of their more sophisticated rockets.

@inamarina basically, you did a good job in reporting this person's comments regardless of what they're now claiming.

@inamarina who wrote like this, whilst my responses appear like this.

Okay, so I did go back and reread what you said on the other thread.
So it’s the Hamas rockets that you’ve described as “really of no consequence” and causing “very few fatalities”. Exactly. Hamas and Hezbollah are two very different military identities. They are each armed very differently.

You then said Hezbollah did possess more sophisticated ballistic missiles, but they wouldn’t use them unless attacked. I did

You also said “Remember it is Israel that has escalated the situation on its northern border, not Hezbollah.” You've now started quoting additional material, but yes, I did say that.
That does make it sound as if you thought Israel attacked Hezbollah first and not the other way round. No it doesn't. It makes no mention of who started it. It only sounds like that if you can't tell the difference between the words escalation and initiation.

You also seem to regard the rockets Hezbollah have been firing at Israel since last October 8th as of little consequence, because apparently they somehow don’t count? How do you glean that ?
So how exactly is what I said in my previous post wildly inaccurate? You claimed that I'd said Hezbollah rockets were of no consequence, when I hadn't.

Rockets and ballistic missiles and cruise missiles are Hezbollah's greatest threat. They have many tens of thousands of them. The doomsday weapon with which they threaten Israel, is a massive salvo. Iron dome, David's sling and Arrow 2/3 can only cope with so much at any one time. Iron dome is a battery that needs time to reload. I guess that Iran's April reprisal of a swarm of missiles and drones and rockets, was a way to see just how Israel's defences would react to multiple threats.

But Hezbollah knows that if it were it to fire off a barrage of thousands, all hell would rain down with Israel's retaliation and at the moment neither Israel nor Hezbollah want that scenario. Things haven't got that bad, yet.

Both sides have been working under containment, and although measured it has slowly been ratcheting up, and according to Mehdi Hasan, over 80% of the ordinance fired across that border has been fired by Israel.

Then came the assassinations and the pagers etc. and its now up to a new level.

Apparently Nasrallah and Netanyahu had both agreed to a ceasefire about ten days before he was killed.

Well, we didn't overthrow a German government and install a proxy prior to the Nazis taking over, so I don't think it's comparable at all.

Yeah, but we kind of did do that.

We brought about the abdication of King Wilhelm II and replaced him with the Weimar Republic. And we all know what happened next.

Of course, it’s more complex and multifaceted than that, but similar nonetheless.

The people you know, I respect their view and agree with it to an extent but they're not representative of the peoplr who haven't sought to leave the country.

I did put in a disclaimer that the people I knew lived in the west, for this reason.

Well, we didn't overthrow a German government and install a proxy prior to the Nazis taking over, so I don't think it's comparable at all.
The people you know, I respect their view and agree with it to an extent but they're not representative of the peoplr who haven't sought to leave the country. I mean if you ask Edward Snowden for his opinion on the US government you won't get a representative picture.

Look at what the West has done to the country, operation Ajax anyone?

By the way I do think that the Iranian regime is abhorrent but it's our creation.

By the same logic we also created the Nazi’s.

Treaty of Versailles, anyone?

But I don’t see anyone bending over backwards to take responsibility for the atrocities they carried out.

Funny that.

whilst they are very aware of the shortcomings of it's leadership they, on the whole, absolutely despise Israel and the West.

That isn’t my experience at all but the people I know live in the west and, as ever, are not one homogeneous group.

Operation Ajax was in 1953.....to say the Iranian regime is 'our creation' stretches reason to breaking point.

Well I'd certainly argue that Israel has brutally suppressed the women of Gaza and the West Bank at least as much as Iran has suppressed the women of its population.
I lived in Tehran for almost a year, the people, on the whole, I found to be incredibly friendly and welcoming, whilst they are very aware of the shortcomings of it's leadership they, on the whole, absolutely despise Israel and the West.
Look at what the West has done to the country, operation Ajax anyone? Over throwing a Democratically elected secular government to install a western puppet purely to serve the economic interests of the western elite. Then when they overthrew the puppet government paying Saddam Hussein to launch a proxy war against Iran costing how many lives? Two, three million?
Is it any wonder they hate us? Maybe the West should learn its lesson and stay out of other people's affairs, won't hold my breath.
By the way I do think that the Iranian regime is abhorrent but it's our creation.

Israel is not a theocratic dictatorship. That is not a minor point. Khamenei has been in charge for over 30 years - as supreme leader you have an aging religious cleric responsible for the judiciary government, military, press and the use of nuclear weapons. Its a lifetime appointment with no democratic accountability whatsoever and the added dimension of religious fervour which underpins the brutal suppression of women. None of that has any parallel in Israel.
I didnt mention regime change and I dont advocate armed intervention. I know my Iranian and Syrian refugee friends would very much like global isolation & pressure on Iran to lead to its implosion and liberation of its people - there is a lot of support for Israel among Iranians.

@EasternStandard I agree with your statements to and extent but nuclear weapons are of undoubted strategic value if your sworn enemy also has them.

What do you really think a good long-term solution would be, one that would as fair as possible to all sides?

I find it very concerning. This kind of view within the west seems to mistakenly overlook threats

The posts below give reasons.

@SharonEllis completely serious, nobody has given any kind of reason that doesn't equally apply to Israel.

And anyone who thinks Western enforced regime change is a good idea needs to show the last time it had a lasting peaceful outcome for ALL.

Okay, so I did go back and reread what you said on the other thread.

So it’s the Hamas rockets that you’ve described as “really of no consequence” and causing “very few fatalities”.

You then said Hezbollah did possess more sophisticated ballistic missiles, but they wouldn’t use them unless attacked.

You also said “Remember it is Israel that has escalated the situation on its northern border, not Hezbollah.”

That does make it sound as if you thought Israel attacked Hezbollah first and not the other way round.

You also seem to regard the rockets Hezbollah have been firing at Israel since last October 8th as of little consequence, because apparently they somehow don’t count?

So how exactly is what I said in my previous post wildly inaccurate?

Really? You cant be serious.

@EasternStandard @HelenHen @Dulra I don't trust Iran with a nuclear weapon any more or less than I do Israel.

I also cannot understand why a theocracy would be any more dangerous than the West and/or Israel. I think it's just dogma.

Yes, I’m confortable with Israel having nuclear weapons.

Israel have had them a long time. They are clearly not going to use them. Like every other country in possession of nuclear weapons.

If so, given the instability in the region and the recklessness shown by Israel, along with committing probable war crimes and targeting innocent civilians, why is it OK for Israel and not Iran?

Don’t be so ridiculous. Many nuclear powers have been reckless in war and have committed war crimes. That doesn’t mean they considered using a nuclear weapon.

You might as well ask why it is okay for the UK to have nuclear weapons and not Germany?

The answer is: no one else in the world needs nuclear weapons. We should be working towards elimating nuclear weapons from the world, not creating more nuclear powers.

Humanity wouldn’t survive a nuclear war so no one is seeking to instigate one.

Iran doesn’t need a nuclear weapon as no one is ever going to launch a nuclear attack on it. So why would they want one? Many countries who have the capabilities to produce nuclear weapons, have agreed not to.

why is it OK for Israel and not Iran?

I can’t believe you would even ask this. I’ve been reading the threads on this board for almost a year. We are now at the point where people have lost rationality to the extent they are asking why isn’t it fair that more countries don’t have nuclear weapons.

Absolutely crazy.

I agree.

Imagine living in the west and yet thinking it ok to wave a hamas flag, cheer on the Houthis or clap for hezbollah. Crazy.

Great minds! Its clearly ludicrous to see any equivalence between Israel and Iran, either as societies or in terms of geo politics.

@SharonEllis ,

Looks like we cross-posted nearly identical posts!

@HelenHen ,

‘Can you please answer my question about whether you're comfortable with Israel having nuclear capability? If so, given the instability in the region and the recklessness shown by Israel, along with committing probable war crimes and targeting innocent civilians, why is it OK for Israel and not Iran?’

I am not comfortable with nukes, but you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

But Israel and Iran just aren’t comparable in any objective sense. Israel have had nukes for decades now and never once threatened to use them. They are also a democracy as opposed to Iran, albeit a flawed one. Finally, Israel are our ally and Iran are our declared enemy, who regard the U.S and her allies (that would include the U.K) as ‘Satan’.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/israel

https://freedomhouse.org/country/iran/freedom-world/2024

The above gives Israel a score of 74/100 and Iran 11/100. Anyone who makes a false equivalence between Israel and Iran is clearly not being objective.

The idea that we should be just as happy with our enemy having nukes as our friend is a perverse one.

@Daftasabroom @HelenHen Iran having nuclear capbility is an entirely different proposition to Israel. Its a theocraric dictstorship that practices sharia with none of the normal rights & protections that a functioning society enjoys. It is 153rd in the Economist democracy index compared to Israel which is 30th. So Israel is as we know flawed but Iran is an entirely different order. It clearly has longstanding ambitions to destabilise the region and build a network of armed groups against Israel which it seeks to eradicate and kill all Jews. Israel has a conflict with the Palestinians but it doesnt have wider ambitions in the region in the sense that Iran does - you might not agree with them but its actions are essentially defensive. Iran is also an ally of Russia & China. Im totally clear whose values I align with and they are not Iran, Russia and China's. I'd rather nobody had nuclear weapons but I sure as hell know that Iran having them is a whole different issue to Israel having them

Inamarina wrote
"Someone was saying the other day (not quite sure whether on this thread or a different one) that the rockets Hezbollah have been firing at Israel since last October were of not much consequence, basically nothing to see here. "

I think that you're referring to me. But what you stated above is a wildly inaccurate description of what I wrote. Go back and reread my message and see how you're mistaken.

If you want your posts to have any credibility, please confine yourself to reporting faithfully what people write.