Storyville BBC now Nova Music Festival

Although I appreciate the point you're trying to make,I think it inappropriate for this thread. in this case we should keep our attention firmly focused on the real and only villains - Hamas. No one else is to blame for that day of utter evil, other than them. God bless the victims of oct 7th, they will never be forgotten.

I am not spreading lies and propaganda. There are plenty of posters who are doing so on this and other threads.

The time for asking hamas to lay down arms was when they were both at each other. That time is long gone and what has happened since is revenge gone mad and totally one sided.

I did not derail the thread... but please don't use a thread like this as a way to spread lies and propaganda. This is not that place. If you want to respect the dead, do it! I'm sure everyone would appreciate keeping the discussion respectful. There are other threads where you can say what you want about the marchers, and we will debate it there... but not here!

Exactly this

Then you know the scale of what happened was completely unexpected. Yes there were failings and the consequences were and still are devastating.

Before 9/11 it was unthinkable that it would happen, it was the stuff of Hollywood, if you were to put in protocols to mitigate for it before it happened people would be resentful and incredulous and question your intelligence sources.

Israel has the iron dome, numerous bomb shelters, an alert system, guarded & gated kibbutzim, strict border controls, plentiful armed garrisons and justified paranoia of it's neighbours, but 7/10 happened. And people celebrated it & they tore down posters of kidnapped children. Some people do support terrorism and many have openly done so here, at least on mn they get deleted.

I agree. Let's keep this thread on topic, out of respect and compassion for the lives lost in the attack.

I'm sorry for your loss, @RogersOrganismicProcess . I know that pain too; please know you aren't alone.

Have you read the thread? I’ve said I watched and was devastated by it
Any criticism is being shut down by saying it’s supporting terrorism.
I’m not going any further with this.
RIP all those killed on October the 7th.

We are discussing. Did you watch the programme?

Just watched it through, my heart goes out to all of those innocents there that day, their families and their loved ones. As a bereaved mother I know the pain of grieving for my child. Thankfully I was spared the agony of harm being inflicted upon her by another.

This thread is not the place for justification of any description. If you feel even the slightest inkling to do so, please lean into the discomfort of watching it through. Keep politics and (im)morals of war on the other threads. Allow this thread to acknowledge the heartache and devastating loss of these young lives.

Are the people affected by Oct 7th allowed to criticise ?
The ignored female soldiers
..are they allowed to criticise?
Of course the terrorists are responsible for the deaths, rape and kidnapping.
Is it not possible to question why more wasn’t done to protect Israeli citizens by their government?
Can’t we discuss that without being accused of supporting terrorism?

Can anyone put successful terrorist attacks in the context of how many are stopped?

I find it victim blaming to talk about dropping the ball

Those responsible for deaths and fear are the terrorists

Yes that's the report I referred to in my post.

This.

There is always threat and we do not know how many don’t happen due to security

On the bbc programme the festival attendees were saying they only found out where the festival was just before it went ahead. Did you watch it?

It was also mentioned that there were 30 breaches of the border fence, I believe also a beach invasion was reported elsewhere.

It was a failure of intelligence services, as was 9/11. Many terrorist attacks are thwarted by intelligence services around the world, we only hear about their failures, or complaints about heavy handed prevention.

We can see now very clearly (if we hadn't seen it many times before in our lifetimes) what hamas and their ilk will do when given half a chance.

The blame for these actions and consequences are at the feet of murderous jihadists.

Reading those articles it seems Hamas were not seen as the terrifying prospect they turned out to be

That they are as their attacks show is still their responsibility

No one will think differently now (if they do not support terrorists)

The alternative scenario I imagine would have been the women soldiers were listened to, intelligence was gathered, the Nova festival was cancelled and the Military were prepared for the attack.

Wow, I’m amazed the BBC is showing this. I’d all but given up on them.

I'd think I'd find it too distressing to watch, I'm still haunted by the images released at the time. But very happy it's being shown, and very surprised it's by the BBC. Sadly, I suspect the people that really should watch it probably won't.

Read the articles I linked.

What alternative scenarios do you imagine?

I'm not disagreeing. But we are discussing a particular event that may have turned out very differently if the women soldiers were listened to.

Back to Hamas This is their violence and terror.

I’m not sure if I’ll watch, maybe I can

hamas certainly seem to enjoy silencing women...and men...and children...and the occasional friendly family pet.

Listening to women is something those in power struggle with ..the world over.