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Conflict in the Middle East

Where do the Lebanese armed forces fit into this?

32 replies

mids2019 · 23/09/2024 20:30

So Lebanon has an army of around 70 00/, a small airforce and a navy. Where does the Lebanese state and it's armed forces sit with current action?

Does Lebanon effectively view the south of the country as a non state, one governed or at least heavily influenced by Hizbollah?

It seems Lebanon and it's government is quite multi sectarian so I wonder if there are splits within the government currently?

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erwachen · 24/09/2024 19:50

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:53

Lebanon is a sovereign state in all the senses of the word.
The military cannot fight IDF without it being a declaration of war, which Lebanon want to avoid. Everyone in the west is diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to look the other way as well.

IDF is violating their sovereignty to fight a terrorist group embedded in Lebanese territory. Their heavy handed tactics are deliberately provocative.

Israel should be diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to address Hezbollah. Just like we are diplomatically pressuring Israel to agree to a ceasefire- we aren’t sending in troops of our own to protect Palestinians.

The only legitimate interference a foreign country can do in another foreign country is at the behest of a UNSC resolution directing a coalition to go into that country and whatever. Like we are currently doing in Yemen.

IDF is violating their sovereignty to fight a terrorist group embedded in Lebanese territory.

What made you change your mind about Hezbollah being terrorists?

YoYoYoYo12345 · 24/09/2024 14:22

VerityUnreasonble · 23/09/2024 23:12

I'm not sure we would be "diplomatically pressuring" Israel and taking no other action if there was a significant terrorist group based there firing rockets at say Manchester on a daily basis. I suspect we would probably be doing something more direct. Legitimate or otherwise.

We would.

Why are people surprised that when hezbollah terrorist organisation fires rockets daily into Israel that Israel takes out rocket launching sites and members of the proscribed terrorist organisation behind that. It's really not a surprise, surely.

Sitting around saying 'please stop firing rockets at us' just won't work.

erwachen · 24/09/2024 00:11

mouthpipette · 23/09/2024 22:22

"Will the Christian minority (30% - 40%) and moderate Muslims be appalled at the result of Islamist terrorism " was written by mids2019.

I'm not going to report your highly offensive slur, I'll let it stand and allow your own bigotry to be the thing to condemn you.
If you believe that the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah are "Islamist terrorism" then it reveals just how little you understand about the current conflict. I as a Jew, would be equally exasperated and offended, were Israel's actions to be described as "Jewish" Terrorism. .
It's a conflict over land, power, authority and money...... just like nearly all the others in the world. It just so happens that the belligerents in this case are nearly all Muslims and Jews.
Yes, there are crazies on both sides that have taken their religion to an extreme, whereby their justification is that they are acting on behalf of their God, but these are the minority. For the rest it's about power land, authority and money.

"I as a Jew, would be equally exasperated and offended, were Israel's actions to be described as "Jewish" Terrorism."

Like they were on another thread recently? Multiple times. But none of those posts have been deleted. Funny that.

VerityUnreasonble · 23/09/2024 23:12

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:53

Lebanon is a sovereign state in all the senses of the word.
The military cannot fight IDF without it being a declaration of war, which Lebanon want to avoid. Everyone in the west is diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to look the other way as well.

IDF is violating their sovereignty to fight a terrorist group embedded in Lebanese territory. Their heavy handed tactics are deliberately provocative.

Israel should be diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to address Hezbollah. Just like we are diplomatically pressuring Israel to agree to a ceasefire- we aren’t sending in troops of our own to protect Palestinians.

The only legitimate interference a foreign country can do in another foreign country is at the behest of a UNSC resolution directing a coalition to go into that country and whatever. Like we are currently doing in Yemen.

I'm not sure we would be "diplomatically pressuring" Israel and taking no other action if there was a significant terrorist group based there firing rockets at say Manchester on a daily basis. I suspect we would probably be doing something more direct. Legitimate or otherwise.

EasternStandard · 23/09/2024 22:42

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:58

Hezbollah and IDF have been exchanging fire since October 8th, 2023 for this latest conflict.

The UN peacekeepers should have done so.

Ok thanks

Are there many instances of success by UN peacekeepers for stopping rockets being fired?

There are so many conflicts, it can't be easy to do, especially with a terrorist group such as Hezbollah

mouthpipette · 23/09/2024 22:24

Oh, it looks like that post was deleted anyway.

mouthpipette · 23/09/2024 22:22

"Will the Christian minority (30% - 40%) and moderate Muslims be appalled at the result of Islamist terrorism " was written by mids2019.

I'm not going to report your highly offensive slur, I'll let it stand and allow your own bigotry to be the thing to condemn you.
If you believe that the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah are "Islamist terrorism" then it reveals just how little you understand about the current conflict. I as a Jew, would be equally exasperated and offended, were Israel's actions to be described as "Jewish" Terrorism. .
It's a conflict over land, power, authority and money...... just like nearly all the others in the world. It just so happens that the belligerents in this case are nearly all Muslims and Jews.
Yes, there are crazies on both sides that have taken their religion to an extreme, whereby their justification is that they are acting on behalf of their God, but these are the minority. For the rest it's about power land, authority and money.

Scirocco · 23/09/2024 22:15

Islamist. Not Islamic. It does matter.

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 22:02

28 Aug 2024
”The United Nations Security Council today unanimously adopted resolution 2749 (2024), extending the mission’s mandate until 31 August 2025.
As daily exchanges of fire are having devastating effects on civilians on both sides of the Blue Line, the Security Council strongly urged all relevant actors to implement immediate measures towards de-escalation. It further demanded the parties recommit to the full implementation of all provisions of resolution 1701 and reiterated its strong support for full respect for the Blue Line and full cessation of hostilities.
The new resolution condemned incidents affecting UNIFIL premises and forces, including the wounding of several peacekeepers. All parties were urged to take all measures to respect the safety and security of UNIFIL personnel and premises, as well to allow UNIFIL to carry out the functions envisaged in resolution 1701.”
https://unifil.unmissions.org/security-council-renews-unifil’s-mandate-demands-full-implementation-resolution-1701

Dulra · 23/09/2024 22:00

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:46

Large influxes of Palestinians is a very mild way to describe the quarter of a million refugees fleeing the nakba and naksa into Lebanon. There were more in total but they didn’t all go to Lebanon.

Yes.
And according to the Norwegian refugee council Lebanon are currently hosting 1.5 million refugees from Syria and Palestine and now tens of thousands of Lebanese being displaced by the airstrikes

HelenHen · 23/09/2024 21:59

mids2019 · 23/09/2024 21:22

@queenofarles

Perhaps after this conflict it may be worth international support of the economy so that the state doesn't become so poor so that it can't effectively get rid of a second army?

So Israel destroys the country and the rest of us pay for it? Seems a bit unfair.

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:58

EasternStandard · 23/09/2024 21:55

How long have the rockets been fired by Hezbollah?

Who within Lebanon can stop them?

Hezbollah and IDF have been exchanging fire since October 8th, 2023 for this latest conflict.

The UN peacekeepers should have done so.

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:56

It is likely that its Christians will emigrate or seek asylum

Agree, and they won’t go to Israel. Israel has become increasingly hostile to Christians.

EasternStandard · 23/09/2024 21:55

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:53

Lebanon is a sovereign state in all the senses of the word.
The military cannot fight IDF without it being a declaration of war, which Lebanon want to avoid. Everyone in the west is diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to look the other way as well.

IDF is violating their sovereignty to fight a terrorist group embedded in Lebanese territory. Their heavy handed tactics are deliberately provocative.

Israel should be diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to address Hezbollah. Just like we are diplomatically pressuring Israel to agree to a ceasefire- we aren’t sending in troops of our own to protect Palestinians.

The only legitimate interference a foreign country can do in another foreign country is at the behest of a UNSC resolution directing a coalition to go into that country and whatever. Like we are currently doing in Yemen.

How long have the rockets been fired by Hezbollah?

Who within Lebanon can stop them?

Kindatired · 23/09/2024 21:54

There is bound to be resentment that Hezbollah has drawn the attack from Israel. Threatening civilians that they have to move because their neighbourhood will effectively carpet bombed will probably increase the support for Hezbollah so Hezbollah will like survive in some viable form. Plus Hezbollah is backed by Iran and Iran can’t be eliminated as it’s huge.

Iran will probably resort to sponsoring attacks on embassies, synagogues, schools and selected businesses around the world in high profile revenge attacks in order to save face. It will continue to back anti-Israeli militants of every hue with weapons and money.Maybe refocus some effort into destabilising Jordan harnessing Palestinian refugees

Overall, probably the Lebanon, already on its knees economically and with well over 100,000 internally displaced people, will be further destabilised and run piecemeal by various militant groups, religious extremists and powerful extended families of quasi-political hoodlums. Theres a good chance that any normal way of life will be impossible due to various anarchic extremist militant groups backed by Iran and its adversaries and a complete lack of meaningful employment . Islamic extremists promising law and order and a lid on extortion , will rise to the top over time.

It is likely that its Christians will emigrate or seek asylum.Israel will reoccupy Southern Lebanon and the leave Lebanon to its own devices, put up with a few rocket attacks on its new”security buffer zone” and then as the years go by the occupation will be effectively an annexation. Then they’ll have another war, rinse and repeat. In my children’s lifetime, I think Israel will have annexed or occupied most of Lebanon.
https://www.state.gov/reports/country-reports-on-terrorism-2021/iran/#:~:text=Iran%20pursued%20or%20supported%20terrorist,a%20disrupted%20attempt%20to%20attack

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:53

mids2019 · 23/09/2024 21:46

@ToBeDetermined

Then Lebanon is not a sovereign state in the true sense of the word?

The military can't intervene in its own territory as Hizbollah would turn on the Lebanese themselves?

Lebanon is a sovereign state in all the senses of the word.
The military cannot fight IDF without it being a declaration of war, which Lebanon want to avoid. Everyone in the west is diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to look the other way as well.

IDF is violating their sovereignty to fight a terrorist group embedded in Lebanese territory. Their heavy handed tactics are deliberately provocative.

Israel should be diplomatically pressuring Lebanon to address Hezbollah. Just like we are diplomatically pressuring Israel to agree to a ceasefire- we aren’t sending in troops of our own to protect Palestinians.

The only legitimate interference a foreign country can do in another foreign country is at the behest of a UNSC resolution directing a coalition to go into that country and whatever. Like we are currently doing in Yemen.

ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:46

Large influxes of Palestinians is a very mild way to describe the quarter of a million refugees fleeing the nakba and naksa into Lebanon. There were more in total but they didn’t all go to Lebanon.

mids2019 · 23/09/2024 21:46

@ToBeDetermined

Then Lebanon is not a sovereign state in the true sense of the word?

The military can't intervene in its own territory as Hizbollah would turn on the Lebanese themselves?

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mids2019 · 23/09/2024 21:44

Well Lebanon was once quite prosperous then there was a disastrous civil war fought on sectarian lines which didn't screwed it basically. There seems to have been large influxes of Palestinians prior to the civil war (unless I am reading the history wrongly)

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ToBeDetermined · 23/09/2024 21:43

The UN has peacekeepers in Lebanon specifically to ensure that Hezbollah and Israel do not kick off like they are now. The Lebanese armed forces cannot engage, because if they did it would be the start of a regional war.

TowerStork · 23/09/2024 21:36

You seem really fixated on Lebanon 'allowing a powerful group take hold' rather than Israel conducting terror attacks on the country and vowing to escalate it's war to Lebanon.

queenofarles · 23/09/2024 21:32

*mids2019 *
Lebanon was bailed so many times, so so many times,
The US was paying the Army wages, no idea if they still do, Kuwait , Qatar , Saudis , France they all pump money into their economy , No idea where it all goes to!
Lebanon always had a strong Druze and Shia presence, you can’t just eliminate them.

mids2019 · 23/09/2024 21:22

@queenofarles

Perhaps after this conflict it may be worth international support of the economy so that the state doesn't become so poor so that it can't effectively get rid of a second army?

OP posts:
mids2019 · 23/09/2024 21:20

It seems like the conflict in Lebanon does not involve the state as such but just a powerful Islamist group. It's such a pity that historically Lebanon has allowed such a group to take hold.

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queenofarles · 23/09/2024 21:19

Lebanon is a very unique complex state in the region ,
per their constitution ;
-The president must be a Maronite Christian
-prime minster must be a Sunni Muslim
-speaker of Parliament Shia Muslim
For the longest time ever neighbouring countries <Israel , Syria > have claimed < and meddled > sovereignty over parts of Lebanon, there is a very long civil war to prove that .
but yea the government is bankrupt, they had absolutely no fuel last month , and were saved by Algeria at the 11th hour, people can’t even withdraw money from banks .

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