Pagers and walkie talkies .....audacious and successful strike against terrorists

How does indiscriminately killing children come under "defending your own country"?

I'm not going to support Hezbollah or Hamas when they do it so I am not going to support Israel when they do it either.

Coming back to this the situation was surely closer to this pre October 7th

There had been previous talk of an accord which did not work, so I'm sure it could be closer, but in terms of iron dome and not escalating it was closer before the attack

Correct
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/long-history-warfare-israel-lebanon-border-2024-06-07/

I’m not Israeli but I would say it’s a war. People get killed. I would always bear in mind who the aggressors were though. If you have been attacked of course you will think reprisals are perfectly acceptable. In this case Israel was attacked by Hezbollah so it attacked back. I mean thats the kind of argument pro-hamas people make, Palestinians are oppressed so violent resistence is justified. I do think there is a moral difference when you are acting defensively vs offensively. This is war, it’s fucking miserable for all involved, don’t start one would be my very blunt advice.

I think it’s natural for people to have more sympathy with the group they are more invested in. Israelis are quite obviously going to be more concerned about Israelis in a war, Lebanese people about other Lebanese people.

Even many of the protesters who don’t really know much about the middle east but see themselves as fighting oppression/colonialism identify with Palestinians to the point where they will tear down posters of Israeli children and feel that they are morally right, people who defend Hamas’s actions as “resistance” they don’t see themselves as bad people doing something that is cruel. The settlers harassing and committing violence against Palestinians, the kinds of people who spit on Christians. None of these people look at themselves and think “goodness I have zero moral compass.” They believe themselves to be justified.

No-one sees themselves as a villain.

It's probably hard to know unless you are in a country surrounded by neighbours who feel so strongly about you being there

In terms of understanding that is

It's interesting isn't it. They could choose differently like that poster pointed out but they don't. This government is what they want over and over again.

I've been out for dinner and come back and still no one can answer if they would support the PA doing the same to their legitimate target the IDF. If in those circumstances they would be on here crowning about 'what else can they do', 'It's sad that children died and innocent people are left traumatised but it was a precision strike', if they would describe it as 'audacious and successful'. Not even a yes or no answer. It's strange that. It's almost as if some posters have one set of rules for Israelis and another for everyone else in the Middle East, almost like some kind of apartheid system or something

His government is made up of MKs from different parties. Although democratic, Israel has a dreadful proportional representation election system. Netanyahou is not 'quite popular' at all.

Indeed.

Which bit was not correct by the way? If I’ve made a mistake I would like to make sure what I’ve misunderstood.

Yup, why did Israel attack Lebanon? It may have had something to do with the PLO using it as a staging post to attack Israel? As you said it’s a long history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Lebanese_conflict

it’s wiki but it’s short for people who are interested.

He has been elected atleast five times, why? Why do the Israeli people continue to vote for this right wing extremist and his extremist terrorist government?

Yeah it’s really interesting, it’s a complicated picture and I think the prospect of an open conflict with Israel may mix it up a bit as well. Possibly embed loyalty or anger towards Hezbollah.

This is very simplistic and not really correct. There is a long complex history between Israel and Lebanon. Israel has twice or three times invaded Lebanon and they have attacked each other back and forth for decades.

Yet Netanyahu is one of the longest serving Israeli PM. By which it can only mean that he is quite popular in Israel.

We rapidly get to the point where Israel cannot defend it’s own territory by this measure. Children died and it’s fucking horrible. This however did not stop Hezbollah from firing missiles into Israel when it killed children itself. The idea that anyone can be immune in a conflict or that we can have zero civilian casualties is a fantasy people sooth themselves with. This is what happens when you choose (and hezbollah chose) to enter into a conflict. People die, often your own.

Quite a few Lebanese on a forum I was on where pretty blunt about the fact that hezbollah were meeting in extremely populated areas so they would have human shields (they were obviously disgusted). They still loathe Israel but they aren’t stupid enough to not understand what Hezbollah is. But they have to live with them don’t they?

Thanks for this, it's a bit different to what I expected

I would also point out for all it’s faults that Israel can remove it’s leaders by just going to a ballot box. They don’t need an assassination or a civil war to do so.

This was an interesting poll on Lebanese attitudes towards Hezbollah

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/shadow-hezbollah-israel-escalation-poll-shows-slim-majority-lebanese-still-want

GoadyMcBigot Israel is not a terrorist state. It is a democracy, unlike many other middle eastern countries. HTH

This really. The reality is Hezbollah attacked Israel the day after 7th October and weeks before Israel responded to Hamas. It was never in a bid to get a ceasefire. Israel has had something like 25 rockets a day coming into north Israel since 8th October. The reality is something has to be done about that. I’m not sure that any country would allow that to continue on it’s border.

Hezbollah involved themselves. I read reports from a thinktank that looks at various conflicts. It suggests that 32 people who died were Hezbollah. The vast majority wounded were hezbollah. They even wounded some IRCG operatives in Syria. The claims that loads of civilians were wounded are inaccurate. Even hezbollah isn’t claiming this. There were civilian casualties though.

I really think when it comes to Hezbollah people struggle with context here. Israel did not attack Hezbollah or Lebanon, Hezbollah were the ones who attacked first. Nasrallah has confirmed he will continue. Thats for a bunch of reasons but partly he’s pretty much the head of Irans group of proxies and he has no way to get out of it.

Some posters struggle with the concept that if you attack a country it will most likely attack you back. You can’t start screaming that it’s not fair when it happens if you were the aggressor. It’s weirdly specific to the middle east and specifically if it involves Israel. I’m saying that as someone with zero skin in the game but is capable of understanding cause and effect.

Depressingly the view from america on a ceasefire is very neagtive. The most recent round involved Israelis conceding to demand from Hamas and then Hamas refusing the deal anyway. The sentiment is that Hamas don’t actually want a deal. I think things are a bit more complex than is appreciated by most of us.

www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-september-20-2024

How do you rid yourselves of this issue
I guess with international support but it is tricky because like you said you don't want civil war. It is like a cuckooing situation on a massive scale

I won't. That child should not have died and was totally innocent.

You misunderstood, hezbollah use the child to deflect from their members who were carrying the pagers and targeted.