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Conflict in the Middle East

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Polka83 · 07/09/2024 15:57

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Perhaps then you might want to discuss whether there appear to adequate grounds for the application of arrest warrants then?

anotherlevel · 07/09/2024 15:55

You'd need to be willfully blind to not see that IL has been broken and war crimes committed. It's getting rather tiring to watch people just ignore the sufferings happening and then try to justify it.

SababaToo · 07/09/2024 15:45

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TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 07/09/2024 15:36

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 15:24

Obviously the actual one. Neither my opnion, nor the opnion of anyone else on mumsnet has any weight whatsoever in a court of law.

Oh okay, I was just surprised to see you patronisingly suggesting people read up on something you clearly don't believe in or follow.

Polka83 · 07/09/2024 15:28

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They are totally a “judgement” in that an expert panel has reviewed evidence and has advised that there are strong grounds for the ICC prosecutor to brave the wrath of US to apply for warrants.
He also applied for warrants for senior members of Hamas.

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 15:24

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 07/09/2024 15:17

The actual legal process or the one you make up where Israel aren't breaking international law or committing crimes of racial segregation and apartheid?

Obviously the actual one. Neither my opnion, nor the opnion of anyone else on mumsnet has any weight whatsoever in a court of law.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 07/09/2024 15:17

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 14:30

Oh dear. You need to read up on legal process.

The actual legal process or the one you make up where Israel aren't breaking international law or committing crimes of racial segregation and apartheid?

SababaToo · 07/09/2024 15:10

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Polka83 · 07/09/2024 15:06

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You are right - it’s an application based on the review of evidence by an expert panel of lawyers for:

  • Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;
  • Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
  • Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
  • Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);
  • Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;
  • Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);
  • Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).
SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 14:30

anotherlevel · 07/09/2024 14:04

Whether the arrest warrants have been approved yet or not is neither here nor there. The fact that it has been requested is enough to tell you that international law has been broken and war crimes have been committed.

Edited

Oh dear. You need to read up on legal process.

SababaToo · 07/09/2024 14:19

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anotherlevel · 07/09/2024 14:04

Whether the arrest warrants have been approved yet or not is neither here nor there. The fact that it has been requested is enough to tell you that international law has been broken and war crimes have been committed.

SababaToo · 07/09/2024 13:29

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Scirocco · 07/09/2024 12:26

International law is violated every day on which: the illegal settlements and 'outposts' remain in situ; the Occupied Territories remain occupied and under blockade; civilians are intentionally targeted and caused harm; 'humanitarian zones' are intentionally targeted; certain weaponry is used for certain purposes (eg some uses of white phosphorus); aid and healthcare provision to civilians is obstructed.

OP posts:
Polka83 · 07/09/2024 11:45

Lalaloveya · 07/09/2024 11:42

So you agree they're breaking international law in Gaza but just not every day?

I would say given the politics involved- that it was a persistence of law breaking that has led to the arrest warrants. Although maybe not every day🙄

anotherlevel · 07/09/2024 11:45

Lettherebejustice · 07/09/2024 10:38

They killed an American activist by sniping her in the head yesterday. That's the precision they are capable of if you want to talk about precision.

Well exactly. They could have easily used this same precision to target any Hamas members but instead they chose not to.

Lalaloveya · 07/09/2024 11:42

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:41

No of course I dont. And have said so many, many times. But wild generalisations and hyperbole are unhelpful. And don't work in a court of law either!

So you agree they're breaking international law in Gaza but just not every day?

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:41

Polka83 · 07/09/2024 11:41

You don’t have to do something everyday to make something illegal and against international law. The ICC who have considered the evidence and come to the conclusion there is enough evidence for arrest warrants for Israeli and Hamas leaders.

The ICJ have considered the evidence and come to the conclusion of Apartheid in the WB.

I have posted links for both of these.

You can equally argue that Likud party policy have strengthened the hand of Hamas by not engaging in a 2 ss with good faith. Netanyahu has been open about dividing and conquering Palestinian leadership.

But the accusation was that it was hapoening every day.

Polka83 · 07/09/2024 11:41

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:35

I don't actually. They are not breaking international law in Gaza every day. I have regularly crticised illegal settlements in the WB. I remember and actively campaigned against apartheid. Israel is not an apartheid state & the situation is not comparable. The failure of Palestinians political strategy & embracing of terrorism is as much to blame for denying Palestinians self determination as the Israeli state.

You don’t have to do something everyday to make something illegal and against international law. The ICC who have considered the evidence and come to the conclusion there is enough evidence for arrest warrants for Israeli and Hamas leaders.

The ICJ have considered the evidence and come to the conclusion of Apartheid in the WB.

I have posted links for both of these.

You can equally argue that Likud party policy have strengthened the hand of Hamas by not engaging in a 2 ss with good faith. Netanyahu has been open about dividing and conquering Palestinian leadership.

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:41

Lalaloveya · 07/09/2024 11:39

Either you are completely clueless about international law or you think bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure and starving a population is reasonable.

No of course I dont. And have said so many, many times. But wild generalisations and hyperbole are unhelpful. And don't work in a court of law either!

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 07/09/2024 11:40

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:35

I don't actually. They are not breaking international law in Gaza every day. I have regularly crticised illegal settlements in the WB. I remember and actively campaigned against apartheid. Israel is not an apartheid state & the situation is not comparable. The failure of Palestinians political strategy & embracing of terrorism is as much to blame for denying Palestinians self determination as the Israeli state.

Palestinians are to blame for their own persecution? Do you support many countries that operate an apartheid system then or just the ones who do it to people you think deserve it? And yes they ruled that Gaza is illegally occupied, they do break international law in Gaza daily.

I honestly can't believe your post. Denying the ICJ ruling and blaming Palestinians for Israels persecution.

Lalaloveya · 07/09/2024 11:39

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:35

I don't actually. They are not breaking international law in Gaza every day. I have regularly crticised illegal settlements in the WB. I remember and actively campaigned against apartheid. Israel is not an apartheid state & the situation is not comparable. The failure of Palestinians political strategy & embracing of terrorism is as much to blame for denying Palestinians self determination as the Israeli state.

Either you are completely clueless about international law or you think bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure and starving a population is reasonable.

Polka83 · 07/09/2024 11:35

@TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree
I thought similar. I imagine the selective response to posts is a way of avoiding uncomfortable truths about Israel’s breaking of international law?

This is not policing what people post- far from it, but it is interesting and telling (I think) what posters choose to respond to and defend.

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:35

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 07/09/2024 11:24

And you continuously read past the chilling fact that Israel are breaking International law daily, persecuting Palestinians daily, that they are responsible for racial segregation and apartheid and that they are responsible for denying Palestinians the right to self determination. That's pretty chilling isn't it, a government that has operated racial segregation and apartheid for decades. Doesn't sound the type of people anyone should be supporting.

I don't actually. They are not breaking international law in Gaza every day. I have regularly crticised illegal settlements in the WB. I remember and actively campaigned against apartheid. Israel is not an apartheid state & the situation is not comparable. The failure of Palestinians political strategy & embracing of terrorism is as much to blame for denying Palestinians self determination as the Israeli state.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 07/09/2024 11:24

SharonEllis · 07/09/2024 11:16

And people just read past that utterly chilling quote without batting an eyelid.

And you continuously read past the chilling fact that Israel are breaking International law daily, persecuting Palestinians daily, that they are responsible for racial segregation and apartheid and that they are responsible for denying Palestinians the right to self determination. That's pretty chilling isn't it, a government that has operated racial segregation and apartheid for decades. Doesn't sound the type of people anyone should be supporting.

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