Has enough been done to tackle incitement to genocide?

You have been on these threads long enough to know damn well what @Miffylou is talking about. The faux naivety just does not work anymore.

I don’t support current Israeli actions on the West Bank or in Gaza but talk about the Gaza population being "close to being wiped out" is absolute blatant nonsense. The UN estimates the population of Gaza at about 2.1 million, and Hamas say about 40,000 have been killed. That's about 2%. Terrible, but not "close to being wiped out".
This number does not include the people buried under the rubbles, or the ones who have died of starvation or from the lack of medicines for diabetes/ cancer/ , or the future deaths which will be directly attributed to the actions of the Israeli government's actions in Gaza.
You’re right that Israel has the power to do it though - if they really wanted to, they could have done it months ago. So obviously they don’t want to.
Even the Israeli government knows that that's a line not to cross. Instead it is done by stealth through constant bombing, the denial of vital ressources for life ( food, meds, the destruction of water infrastructures and so on).

I wonder whether you would be so uninterested about blatant racism against against any other race.
Could you, please, elaborate on this?

Did I say any of those things? I don't think I gave any opinion at all.

Which does not excuse genocidal intent on the part of extremist Israelis. But neither does the reaction excuse the horror of what Hamas did which was entirely consistent with their desire to destroy Israel and Jews.

Of course Hamas bears a very significant, though not sole, responsibility. How could they not?

So it’s Hamas’s fault then that Israel has killed about 15,000 children then?
Because Hamas started it after all…
People who try to justify, minimise or deny the depth of these atrocities underpin the incitement to genocide. It makes it ok, politically expedient even, to say things like “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. It’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved. It’s absolutely not true. … and we will fight until we break their backbone.” - Israel’s president
or
"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of [1948]. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join"- Israel’s agriculture minister

I sometimes wonder what Hamas thought would be the Israeli response to their actions, I suspect they got something rather different.

There are rules? Hamas leaders clearly didn't get the memo either.

But there seems to be a tendency of some outside the region that would rather wallow in the horror than think about solutions. Thats up to you guys.

I was involved in many discussions in the early days on these threads about possible peace solutions when I actually partly believed that's what the Israeli government would want but it has become clear to me that they have no interest in peace and they are intent on the destruction of Gaza. I agree people don't mention hamas but most I'm sure have no faith or expectation of Hamas to do anything in the interest of Palestinians, they are a terrorist organision. It is the UN and the international community that has to advocate for Palestinians, who else have they? Israel is a democracy and with that come responsibilities which they are not honouring.

You can patronise posters here suggesting we are wallowing in the horrors and not suggesting solutions, but solutions require people at the table who want peace, who want a solution and are willing to negotiate and compromise for that but those people are not there on either side, that's the reality. The reality is that the suffering, destruction and death continues in Gaza day in day out so forgive me for focussing on the day to day because the long-term picture for Gaza is bleak.

Hamas pulled out of the latest negotiations as Netanyahu backed by Blinken introduced new terms outside of what had already been agreed to in July. It's no secret that Netanyahu does not want a ceasefire as he has frustrated the process over months.

In fact retired Israeli General Yitzhak Brik wrote about this as part of an article for Haaretz last week:
As for a potential hostage swap deal with Hamas, he said it has “become impossible” to achieve what Israel could have gained earlier with a ceasefire deal “due to the new conditions that Netanyahu introduced into the proposed deal.”
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240822-israel-could-collapse-within-a-year-if-war-of-attrition-continues-warns-retired-general/

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/sinking-deeper-into-gazan-mud-general-brick-predicts-israels-collapse-within-a-year/

(I've used those links as Haaretz is behind a paywall https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-08-22/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-will-collapse-within-a-year-if-the-war-against-hamas-and-hezbollah-continues/00000191-795e-d8d0-a7bb-f9ff81000000 )

@Dulra well I think Hamas pulled out of the last hostage negotiations, so how serious are they? Anyway,the families of the hostages and the peace movement, and the civilians of gaza are certainly interested in peace so I tthink discussions of what that might look like are far from academic. In fact they are pragmatic & essential because they have a direct bearing on what happens now in terms of managing the genocidal intentions and behaviour of Hamas and extreme elements in Israel and Gaza (& WB). This is where thinking about negotiations come in - if X does this now, they will have to concede Y in a negotiation for example. Hopefully there are clear headed people thining about these things.

But there seems to be a tendency of some outside the region that would rather wallow in the horror than think about solutions. Thats up to you guys.

@Dulra did you understand @ToBeDetermined 's suggestion. She seemed to think it was obvious, I don't. All I want is an explanation of the alternative to a negotiated ceasefire & peace settlement. I dont want a discussion. I've said neither side is doing enough to stop incitement to genocide, which was the original question. People on this thread only seem interested in condemning Israel, not incitement to genocide from those who want to destroy Israel & Jews. I dont know what else you want me to say on that topic.

Did you understand it? If so please share.
Did I understand what? Please share what?

I find it difficult to discuss peace negotiations and settlements when the situation is so far from that. Israel have done nothing to prevent the incitement of genocide, the UN has described the situation as catastrophic right now. It has taken months to even try and agree a ceasefire and I don't think the current Israeli government are interested in peace they are not finished with Gaza yet so your discussion is completely academic.

If I wanted to start another thread I would (I don't). Discussions develop and this one has been developed by various people in various ways - @ToBeDetermined was very clear that there was an alternative to the usual route of a negotiated ceasefire & peace settlement which I had assumed was a goal we all share so the context is pretty relevant to this discussion. Did you understand it? If so please share.

Maybe start another thread about peace settlement options but this thread was originally asking whether enough has been done to tackle incitement to genocide. It is getting derailed which I am guilty of too.

More aid strikes yesterday killing more aid worker would suggest that nothing is being done by the Israeli government to tackle incitement to genocide.

They continue because several states most notably Iran wish to destroy Israel. Iran & Qatar sponsor much of the terrorism in the region and Israel is regularly attacked. Maybe they could stop funnelling money to terrorists? The money that was spent on tunnels & rockets.Israel's defence system the iron dome was built to protect them from the thousands of rockets being fired at civilian targets by Hezbollah & Hamas in the early 2000s & knowing that both had an arsenal of 10s of 1000s of rockets aimed at israel. They are protecting their strategic interests - in the cold war it was against the USSR's influence, now its Iran and radical Islamism. Israel is the only democracy in the region, while Iran is a horrifically oppressive regime (thats where you will find apartheid, tho not quite as bad as the gender apartheid in Aghanistan). US is also Israel's biggest trading partner worth billions to the US due to Israel's sophisticated economy so the tax dollars are considered pretty good value. You can bet the Saudis, Egypt etc dont want that support to stop either.

Yeah to be honest she didn't sound terribly bright.

Oh yes, was that the one channel 4 news interviewed at a settlement? She had the most horrendous views. She said that Jewish people were more intelligent and better people so that's why they should have Gaza.

Could America (and any other western country) just stop funnelling money to Israel and backing them ? Surely this would have a massive impact.

I don’t understand why they continue - even many right wing people are beginning to think it’s too much.

Not even out of concern for the Palestinian dead but more fiscal concerns for how they’re using tax dollars.

Talk about whataboutery and deflection.
I didn’t come across the post you referred to. Am I supposed to comment on every single thing to make things “balanced” ? 🙄

do you frequently bring up the horrible inhumane things the IDF and Israeli government and settlers are doing when someone is talking about what Palestinians are doing wrong? I doubt it.

This was a video I seen yesterday or the day before that had shocked me, so I posted it to the thread as it’s highly relevant to the post I quoted.

I firmly believe there are members of the Israel Government that intend the west bank to be fully occupied by Israel.

My point being that there are people outside the government who believe this too, and they want to occupy the entire Palestine even.

And the thing is regardless of what that poster allegedly said nothing like that IS actually hapening in real life. IRL Israelis , born in America or not ARE the ones coming to Israel and pushing Palestinians out and their grotesque war is having that effect too.

So it’s not just something a random poster said - it’s actually happening - big difference.

And btw, I didn’t say ALL Jews think like that, but there is a lot of Israelis who do think like that. She’s certainly not unique in this. Look how many illegal settlers there are and their disgusting and reprehensible behaviour

@ToBeDetermined I'm still trying to understand how this conflict ends without a negotiated peace settlement. You say
There are numerous ways to enforce peace that do not rely on two warring factions to come to a negotiated agreement. We just need the international political will to do so.
Please could you explain what would happen? Who would be enforcing, what exactly would they be enforcing and what would the end result be? Is it 2 states or 1 state? And if it has been enforced rather than negotiated, how is it sustainable?

I was equally as gobsmacked when I saw a poster on here say that the best place for a Jewish homeland is Florida and when another poster said Jews should make their homeland in the US because basically they should all go back to where they came from. If we're using the CITME metric for one terrible Jew representing all Jews, that must mean those posters' views represent the majority of MNers. Gobsmacked again.

I saw an American Jewish woman who had moved to Israel saying she hoped to move to Gaza eventually and that Palestinians should start moving to various Arab states. I was gobsmacked.