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Conflict in the Middle East

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MissyB1 · 03/09/2024 17:12

User6874356 · 03/09/2024 16:18

Obvious to who? Someone reading terrorist propaganda on the internet?

Obvious to anyone with a brain.

Zzippit · 03/09/2024 17:08

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:21

You don't agree that others lived there too? It's a fact, that's all, not a deflection or whataboutery. A fact, plain and simple.

That's not what I said at all, please don't exaggerate. It might be helpful to take some time to acquaint yourself with the definitions of whataboutery and deflection.

Comedycook · 03/09/2024 16:41

User6874356 · 03/09/2024 16:22

They do. There are a great many speeches from Sinwar and Haniyeh stating exactly that. That’s why they rampaged through israel murdering people including lifelong peace activists. That’s why they fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli targets.

Hamas are terrorists- extremely violent dangerous terrorists. Some people like to kid themselves that they are some sort of freedom fighters - they are either stupid or terminally antisemitic. These terrorists are utter psychopaths.

Yes exactly. The idea that Hamas are suddenly fine with Jews, it's just Zionists they have a problem with is just total nonsense. Does anyone really believe this crap?!

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:40

SharonEllis · 03/09/2024 16:37

The whataboutery bit is you having to mention it when its absolutely bleeding obvious.

If you say so.

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:39

User6874356 · 03/09/2024 16:18

Obvious to who? Someone reading terrorist propaganda on the internet?

No, just people who have eyes and ears as well as the ability to use critical thinking.
Propaganda is a tool used by both side; let's not forget. I could accuse you of falling for the Israeli government propaganda, but I won't because it is a cheap shot.

SharonEllis · 03/09/2024 16:37

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:21

You don't agree that others lived there too? It's a fact, that's all, not a deflection or whataboutery. A fact, plain and simple.

The whataboutery bit is you having to mention it when its absolutely bleeding obvious.

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:35

Comedycook · 03/09/2024 16:15

You still haven't convinced me that Hamas don't hate and want to eradicate all jews

I don't want to convince you of anything. I doubt I could, anyway.
I firmly believe that Hamas hates Israelis as much as the Israeli government hates the Palestinians. Both has been demonstrated by the horrors of 07/10 and the ongoing horrors in Gaza and the West Bank.
Let's not forget Netanyahu has allowed Hamas to grow by funding them for years. This is a well known fact. He has, deliberately, endangered the lives of his citizens as much as Hamas has. Whilst both remain in power, no one will be safe.

SharonEllis · 03/09/2024 16:34

Zzippit · 03/09/2024 15:58

Yes, got to make sure that any discussion about the persecution of Jews and the attempts to eradicate their ancestral and current presence in Israel is subject to the correct measure of deflection and whataboutery.

Exactly. I havent suggested erasing anyone. Only someone with no understanding of Israel past or present would suggest tjat a statement that Jews come from the region implies that other people dont. Anyone with a passing knowledge knows that many peoples originate there.

SababaToo · 03/09/2024 16:31

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User6874356 · 03/09/2024 16:22

Comedycook · 03/09/2024 16:15

You still haven't convinced me that Hamas don't hate and want to eradicate all jews

They do. There are a great many speeches from Sinwar and Haniyeh stating exactly that. That’s why they rampaged through israel murdering people including lifelong peace activists. That’s why they fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli targets.

Hamas are terrorists- extremely violent dangerous terrorists. Some people like to kid themselves that they are some sort of freedom fighters - they are either stupid or terminally antisemitic. These terrorists are utter psychopaths.

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:21

Zzippit · 03/09/2024 15:58

Yes, got to make sure that any discussion about the persecution of Jews and the attempts to eradicate their ancestral and current presence in Israel is subject to the correct measure of deflection and whataboutery.

You don't agree that others lived there too? It's a fact, that's all, not a deflection or whataboutery. A fact, plain and simple.

User6874356 · 03/09/2024 16:18

MissyB1 · 28/08/2024 09:05

I think it's more than obvious (and has been for months) that the threshold for genocide has been met, also ethnic cleansing. Mind you that's been going on for years on the West bank and is getting worse every day - big reports on BBC and channel 4 the last few days on that.

Obvious to who? Someone reading terrorist propaganda on the internet?

Comedycook · 03/09/2024 16:15

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:13

You can be a Zionist without being Jewish. Zionism is a cultural and political movement, based on Theodore Herzl’s efforts to establish a Jewish state in the land of then called Palestine.
An interesting article explains his beliefs, some of them, frankly, beyond belief.
Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism. Not quite what you might imagine | Jewish Voice for Labour

You still haven't convinced me that Hamas don't hate and want to eradicate all jews

Itoosurvive · 03/09/2024 16:14

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Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 16:13

Comedycook · 03/09/2024 12:54

Their grievance is not with Jews, per se

🙄

Rubbish

You can be a Zionist without being Jewish. Zionism is a cultural and political movement, based on Theodore Herzl’s efforts to establish a Jewish state in the land of then called Palestine.
An interesting article explains his beliefs, some of them, frankly, beyond belief.
Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism. Not quite what you might imagine | Jewish Voice for Labour

Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism. Not quite what you might imagine

Zionism has meant many different things to many people over time. Although its founder, Theodor Herzl, is feted…

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/theodor-herzl-founder-of-zionism-not-quite-what-you-might-imagine/

Zzippit · 03/09/2024 15:58

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 15:51

Others lived there too. Let's not erase them.

Yes, got to make sure that any discussion about the persecution of Jews and the attempts to eradicate their ancestral and current presence in Israel is subject to the correct measure of deflection and whataboutery.

Auvergne63 · 03/09/2024 15:51

SharonEllis · 03/09/2024 13:07

This is utter nonsense. The region is the ancestral home of the Jewish people. There is no equivalence with the mormons. And yes they do have a problem with Jewish people.

Others lived there too. Let's not erase them.

Miffylou · 03/09/2024 14:58

Lalaloveya · 03/09/2024 13:56

I don't think religion should be involved in any state.

And I told you why I didn't answer. You can make up as many scenarios in your head as you like I guess if you don't like my answers.

You don’t think religion should be involved in any state. Shame all those Muslim states who expelled many hundreds of thousands of Jews, and confiscated their property, didn’t agree with you.

SababaToo · 03/09/2024 14:55

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Lalaloveya · 03/09/2024 14:03

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Lalaloveya · 03/09/2024 13:56

Miffylou · 03/09/2024 13:03

I didn’t say the current situation is OK. I am on record as saying I loathe Netanyahu and disagree with the Israeli policy in Gaza and the West Bank. But you are simply refusing to acknowledge why Zionists feel the need for their own majority Jewish country.

I think we might be able to guess why you don’t want to answer my hypothetical question - you are aware how it would look if you answered it honestly.

Edited

I don't think religion should be involved in any state.

And I told you why I didn't answer. You can make up as many scenarios in your head as you like I guess if you don't like my answers.

Zzippit · 03/09/2024 13:33

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So Diasporic Jews will escape the notice of nasty antisemites as long as they're not Zionists? Well that's ok then! How well do you think that's been playing out in the last eleven months?

Hamas (assisted by Qatari resources) and the IRI spend an awful lot of time and money promoting antisemitic tropes and conspiracies about the filthy, lying, morally bankrupt 'Zionist entity' controlling the worldwide media, banks, education, medicine etc, considering they couldn't care less about them.

Anyone still denying that when Hamas and the IRI refer to Zionists, they mean Jews has seriously questionable motives and outlook. The 'Zionist state' is Israel. They want to dismantle Israel in its entirety, by any means necessary. This ideology is rooted in supremacy and Jew-hatred. Hamas may have taken the bit about killing all Jews out of their latest charter but that hasn't changed their meaning and intention, supported by the evidence that they keep killing Jews. Wake up.

Comedycook · 03/09/2024 13:22

They simply use the word "Zionist" now instead of "Jew", because it’s seen as more acceptable to "useful idiots"

Exactly this.

Miffylou · 03/09/2024 13:12

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You have been duped. Hamas have never apologised for, or publicly rejected, their founding charter, which had a number of mentions of the need to kill all Jews (and this was current at the time Jeremy Corbyn was calling their leaders his "friends"). They simply use the word "Zionist" now instead of "Jew", because it’s seen as more acceptable to "useful idiots". Would you feel the same about a group whose founding charter called for the death of all black people, and who never publicly rejected that aim?

But Palestinian children are still taught to hate all Jews, and some leaders still say things like this: in N April 2023 sermon, Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.”

SharonEllis · 03/09/2024 13:07

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This is utter nonsense. The region is the ancestral home of the Jewish people. There is no equivalence with the mormons. And yes they do have a problem with Jewish people.

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