Has enough been done to tackle incitement to genocide?

I don’t agree with Israel's policy of holding people without charge.

So what would you be OK with Palestinians doing to get their people back? You are OK with Israel bombing civilian areas, destroying infrastructure and healthcare in Gaza to get their people back, what is your red line for Palestinians getting their people back? How far can they go to rescue their children who are tortured and abused whilst held in Israeli detention without charge?

Who cares if Hamas complains about civilians being "hurt" - read tens of thousands of civilians being killed, maimed and displaced. The fact that it happens is what's wrong about it. And Israel is deliberately bombing civilians. There's very little evidence of these supposed command centres where Israel bombs hospitals and schools. And even if there was, Israel still shouldn't bomb places full of civilians. This is really basic stuff. They're bombing displaced people and destroying civilian infrastructure in order to destroy Gaza and its people.

Time pointed out that "Hamas is not and has never been interested in compromise, unlike their rival, the Palestinian Authority run by Mahmound Abbas which governs much of the West Bank but not in Gaza. Many in the Palestinian Authority were said to welcome a Saudi peace plan as well the offer of financial assistance to improve the lives of Palestinians before Hamas sabotaged those plans Saturday."

Look what happened. Netanyhu did everything in his power to weaken the Palestinian Authority by bolstering Hamas. He did not want a compromise with Palestinians. He did not want a two state solution.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
The Times of Israel
www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

I think if murderers and rapists choose to situate themselves in, or in tunnels directly beneath, churches, mosques, hospitals and schools, then they can’t complain when civilians get hurt. And of course Hamas don’t complain - they are on record repeatedly saying they welcome the "martyrdom" of Gazan civilians. (They say it from their hotels abroad and Gazan tunnels, of course, hoping to be safe themselves.)

You think it’s a good idea to reward kidnappers, rapists and murderers by negotiating with them. I don’t. It just encourages them to carry out more murders and kidnaps so they have more ammunition for emotional blackmail. The sort of emotional blackmail they are currently engaging in, by murdering in cold blood six hostages held in captivity for nearly a year, when it seemed that they were near being rescued, and threatening to murder more if their demands aren’t met.

I don’t agree with Israel's policy of holding people without charge, but prisoners released by Israel in previous exchanges were not innocent civilians kidnapped from their homes. In fact one of them was Yahya Sinwar, the current leader of Hamas and reported mastermind of the October rapes, massacre and abductions. Ironically, his life had been saved by treatment in an Israeli hospital for a potentially fatal brain tumour.

It is beyond my understanding how anyone (other than the anguished relatives of the hostages) can think it is a good idea to reward people like that by agreeing to their demands.

No, I think not wanting there to be a Jewish state is quite a controversial opinion. Answer being Jewish is not just a religion.

@Miffylou I certainly don't think their response should have been genocide.

I think they should have negotiated a hostage exchange. Let's not forget Israel holds thousands of Palestinians without charge in horrendous conditions.

Surely you don't think bombing churches, mosques, hospitals, schools, heck even their own hostages was a justifiable response?

I won't even get into the fact that the IDF seems to think a justified response is sniping children in the head....

@Dulra
I have no idea whether what you have said is true you've named posters without quoting them so it is still quite vague.

I've lost count of the number of posters on these threads tying themselves in knots to claim Hamas' stated aim isn't to kill Jews, just because it wasn't enshrined with a ballpoint pen in their second charter or something.

I could understand if some posters miss these if they rarely dip into these threads, but how odd that they've passed you by. Anyway, here's one from just yesterday on this thread at 12:46 - maybe you were having lunch at the time?

The most recent Hamas charter states that its aim is to dismantle the Zionist state, as is Iran's. Their grievance is not with Jews, per se. Had Israel been colonised by Mormons they would probably hate the Mormons of Israel, instead of the Jews. Iran and Hamas couldn't care less about Jews outside Israel, unless of course those Jews are fervent supporters of the state and facilitators of its actions.

The above is terrorist-excusing (to put it mildly) bollocks.

And we've now got @lionlass framing Hamas as 'the resistance'.

OK, what do you think Israel's response should have been, then?

@Miffylou I'm saying that what happened on October 7th does not justify what Israel did before or after.

No you recall wrongly regarding the deleted post. If you didnt understand my post I'm in favour of separation of church and state in every country which is not a controversial position to have in most parts of the world.

Sorry if I sounded condescending but you seemed to be unaware of past attempts at establishing a two-state solution. You said "If Israel had wanted a two state solution at any point we'd have had one by now", which was untrue. So what I said did prove my point.

Yup. We wouldn't see them defending Palestinians denying Israelis the right to self determination, stealing their homes and resources, abducting and torturing them, using them as human shields, denying them healthcare, restricting their movement, their education, their water, making disgusting genocidal statements etc because they are scared. Bring up all of these human rights violations and you get a shrug and told that Israelis are scared. You might at a push get a wet its a shame about Palestinian suffering but Israelis are scared. Not any acknowledgement about how living through all of this for decades at the hands of Israel must feel for Palestinians, how terrified they must be day in day out at the actual reality of their lives. Israel can do as they please because they are scared and Palestinians well it's a pity but....

You are happy, then, to justify the rape, murder and abduction of civilians.

There's no need to be so condescending.

This doesn't prove your point though does it. We'll have to agree to disagree.

@Miffylou You call it sickening, I call it the truth.

Gosh. What a sickening comment.

I agree. So how come right from the start nearly all the hundreds of thousands of marchers calling for "ceasefire!" were not calling for Hamas to be overthrown? Or for the abducted hostages to be released immediately? Because all I saw and heard were calls for Israel to stop its fight back.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5152005-has-enough-been-done-to-tackle-incitement-to-genocide?reply=138016060&utmcampaign=reply&utmmedium=share @Lalaloveya (also in one of the deleted posts IIRC)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5152005-has-enough-been-done-to-tackle-incitement-to-genocide?reply=138014614&utmcampaign=reply&utmmedium=share
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5152005-has-enough-been-done-to-tackle-incitement-to-genocide?reply=138019064&utmcampaign=reply&utmmedium=share @Itoosurvive

Is that good enough for you?

Can you please stop asking posters to do this and perhaps RTFT? Maybe start here: Yes the last few pages of this thread are pretty shocking. Clearly for some Palestinian lives are of absolutely no value and work your way back.

I ask the questions because they go to the root of the problem. Israel is surrounded by definitely or historically hostile countries. Many of them would prefer that it did not exist. The declared and often repeated aim of Hamas is to wipe Israel off the map.

We will just have to disagree on this. No doubt Israel could have done things better, but I have never heard of any other war where civilians received notice to leave particular areas or buildings before they were targeted.

The actions of Hamas nearly a year ago precipitated all this death and misery. What do you suppose they thought Israel's reaction to their murderous rampage and abductions would be?

Ok but you have accused posters of something so maybe tag them so they can respond. I have no idea whether what you have said is true you've named posters without quoting them so it is still quite vague.