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Conflict in the Middle East

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SababaToo · 04/09/2024 13:02

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Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 12:47

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

Edited

It is not isolated incidents as you like to claim. It is an everyday reality. And the cruel treatment of detainees Is state sanctioned under the authority of Ben Gvir and the Netanyahu government.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:45

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

Edited

Oh it's different? Living with the constant threat of 'isolated incidents' of your children being killed, that's fine, it only happens once in while, what are they so bothered about, right? Bearing in mind these are 4 'isolated incidents' I pulled from a 2 min google search and there is almost certainly a lot more...

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:42

If you are saying that what is happening in Gaza is fine because Hamas killed children then what do you think is ok for Palestinians to do when their babies and children are killed? How do you think Palestinians should react to their home being burnt and their baby killed? To their children being killed whilst playing or doing chores? What reaction would you be OK with considering their children have been horrifically killed? It's fine for Israel to dismantle healthcare, starve children, kill 2% of the population when their children are killed. It's fine for Palestinians to do what when their children are killed?

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 12:42

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Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:33

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2015/7/31/palestinian-baby-burned-to-death-in-settler-attack

This baby was burnt to death in their own home. What you red line here?

Killed playing on the beach, what's your red line here?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/israel-clears-military-gaza-beach-children

Autistic man going to school, shot and killed, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Snipers killing children hanging laundry on their roof, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:36

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:32

I am comparing the two because @TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree was suggesting that the October abductions, rapes and murders were a reasonable way to get back the Palestinian "children" she said were being abused and tortured in Israeli custody.

I didn't suggest it was reasonable. I asked you what you thought would be a reasonable way to get Palestinian children back as you think extreme violence is ok to get Israelis back. And lots of Palestinian children are held without charge, are not given a lawyer or a fair trial and 85% of them are abused while this happens. Personally I think it should all have been done around a table a long, long time ago. I don't agree with the extreme violence of Hamas and I don't agree with the extreme violence of Israel.

SababaToo · 04/09/2024 12:34

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TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:33

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:17

Yes, it’s wrong and I condemn such treatment. But as I suspected, these are teenage boys who were throwing rocks or similarly choosing to engage violently with Israelis. They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2015/7/31/palestinian-baby-burned-to-death-in-settler-attack

This baby was burnt to death in their own home. What you red line here?

Killed playing on the beach, what's your red line here?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/israel-clears-military-gaza-beach-children

Autistic man going to school, shot and killed, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Snipers killing children hanging laundry on their roof, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Palestinian baby burned to death in settler attack

Two homes set ablaze in Duma village in occupied West Bank, with graffiti left on the walls reading “revenge” in Hebrew.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2015/7/31/palestinian-baby-burned-to-death-in-settler-attack

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:32

Dulra · 04/09/2024 12:26

They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.
I don't understand why you are comparing the two here. You suggested you didn't know that children were being abused in Israeli prisons I gave you evidence that they were. We don't know what many of the children in Israeli prisons have done because they have been charged with any crime yet

I am comparing the two because @TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree was suggesting that the October abductions, rapes and murders were a reasonable way to get back the Palestinian "children" she said were being abused and tortured in Israeli custody.

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 12:29

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You would prefer an endless war it seems.

SababaToo · 04/09/2024 12:27

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Dulra · 04/09/2024 12:26

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:17

Yes, it’s wrong and I condemn such treatment. But as I suspected, these are teenage boys who were throwing rocks or similarly choosing to engage violently with Israelis. They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.

They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.
I don't understand why you are comparing the two here. You suggested you didn't know that children were being abused in Israeli prisons I gave you evidence that they were. We don't know what many of the children in Israeli prisons have done because they have been charged with any crime yet

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 12:25

@SababaToo how do you all think the last round of negotiations were done??

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:25

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:17

Yes, it’s wrong and I condemn such treatment. But as I suspected, these are teenage boys who were throwing rocks or similarly choosing to engage violently with Israelis. They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.

Ah I see you just don't care. It's wrong but....

SharonEllis · 04/09/2024 12:24

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 04/09/2024 08:34

Of course they have a reason to be scared, but at the end of the day they're safe. Palestinians are being forced into camps that are then bombed.

Israeli's are not safe. Hamas have vowed to repeat October 7th. Hamas & Hezbollah are continuing to fire rockets, terrorist attacks within Israel continue, Iran attacked. Of course it is not the scale of Israel's offensive & the Iron dome is pretty effective but Israelis are not safe.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:24

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:01

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?

What children have been abused or tortured in Israeli custody? I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.

Are you being serious, what children have been tortured and abused in Israeli custody? Save the Children reported that 86 percent of children are beaten in Israeli detention, while 69 percent are strip-searched and 42 percent are subject to injuries during their arrests.

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:17

Dulra · 04/09/2024 12:08

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?
If only they were arrested many are shot and killed. I can provide links to evidence of this but there are many so would take a while you might be best googling yourself if you want to find out more

I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.
Not isolated endemic

www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian#

Yes, it’s wrong and I condemn such treatment. But as I suspected, these are teenage boys who were throwing rocks or similarly choosing to engage violently with Israelis. They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.

SababaToo · 04/09/2024 12:17

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Dulra · 04/09/2024 12:08

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:01

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?

What children have been abused or tortured in Israeli custody? I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?
If only they were arrested many are shot and killed. I can provide links to evidence of this but there are many so would take a while you might be best googling yourself if you want to find out more

I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.
Not isolated endemic

www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian#

SababaToo · 04/09/2024 12:06

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Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:01

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 11:48

I don’t agree with Israel's policy of holding people without charge.

So what would you be OK with Palestinians doing to get their people back? You are OK with Israel bombing civilian areas, destroying infrastructure and healthcare in Gaza to get their people back, what is your red line for Palestinians getting their people back? How far can they go to rescue their children who are tortured and abused whilst held in Israeli detention without charge?

Edited

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?

What children have been abused or tortured in Israeli custody? I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 11:52

@Miffylou It is beyond my understanding how anyone (other than the anguished relatives of the hostages) can think it is a good idea to reward people like that by agreeing to their demands.

It is called negotiations. And I suppose you have missed the hundreds of thousands in Israel who are demanding their government to negotiate a deal and have been doing so since the start of the war.

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 11:49

Lalaloveya · 04/09/2024 11:40

Who cares if Hamas complains about civilians being "hurt" - read tens of thousands of civilians being killed, maimed and displaced. The fact that it happens is what's wrong about it. And Israel is deliberately bombing civilians. There's very little evidence of these supposed command centres where Israel bombs hospitals and schools. And even if there was, Israel still shouldn't bomb places full of civilians. This is really basic stuff. They're bombing displaced people and destroying civilian infrastructure in order to destroy Gaza and its people.

Edited

So according to you, all Hamas or any other murderer needs to do to be safe from attack is to situate themselves in civilian areas. OK…

Who cares if Hamas complains or just regards the poor Gazan civilians as ammunition in their propaganda campaign, as "martyrs" whether or not they choose to be? I expect the Gazans being used by Hamas as battle fodder, just as Hamas knew they would be, care!

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