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Conflict in the Middle East

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 4)

987 replies

Eyesopenwideawake · 09/07/2024 18:08

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/09/israel-gaza-hamas-hospitals/

I see the old thread is sadly almost full. I wonder how many of these I will start? 😢

OP posts:
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133
AhNowTed · 15/07/2024 16:45

ScrollingLeaves · 15/07/2024 14:28

Thank you, I shall read your links through later.

Did you see that this week Al Jazeera English did an interesting report about the water?

Hi

No I haven't seen it and I can't find it.

I do see that Al Jaz have been reporting this for a long time

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/people-power/2023/7/27/weaponising-water-in-palestine#:~:text=Decades%20of%20Israeli%20occupation%20have,effect%20on%20the%20water%20supply.

But no, not the latest report.

Can you share the link?

Thanks

Weaponising water in Palestine

How occupation and the climate crisis have made Palestinians some of the most water insecure people in the world.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/people-power/2023/7/27/weaponising-water-in-palestine#:~:text=Decades%20of%20Israeli%20occupation%20have,effect%20on%20the%20water%20supply.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/07/2024 14:28

AhNowTed · 15/07/2024 13:42

I found this terrific thread on X which I will link to, which some very useful maps.

The Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip: A Comprehensive Analysis

https://mem.ai/p/LnZtBLQtVz2gcSOfbHnN

https://twitter.com/Priyankar167304/status/1812632558808739946

A couple of extracts:

The most important area of water supply is the Northeast Aquifer Basin, which stretches into Israel proper. But Israeli settlements like Ariel (in particular) eat into this aquifer and essentially extract vast quantities of water at the expense of Palestinians.

And this is before we get to the fact they also pump large quantities of sewage into West Bank locales like Salfit. Consequently, not only do Palestinians have to face pollution from settlements; they also have far less water/capita than settlers (estimates run from 1/6 to 1/4).

The West Bank settlements also deprive Palestinians of access to the Dead Sea, which has minerals that Israel routinely extracts and that would be valuable for the Palestinian economy (see Arnon and Bamiya, 2016). Now we turn to the issue of outposts. All settlements need to be

Authorised before they can be built. But what often happens is that a few messianic settlers build an outpost somewhere deep in the West Bank, these are then legalised by Israel and added to existing settlements (E.g., 'Tekoa B' and the like). These outposts are more damaging to

Contiguity than anyone could anticipate. But the government keeps legalising them. Why? For two reasons. First, fear of messianic settlers and polarisation in Israel between the religious right and the government. But also a lot of state funds go into these very projects that are

Illegal under Israel's own laws. The Talia Sasson Report of 2005 found substantial state funding for the outposts. It was never acted upon: retroactive outpost legalisation has spread across large swathes of the West Bank. Despite the report exposing outposts for what they were

Which indicates just how pervasive the settlement enterprise has become. I won't comment on legality since I am not an international lawyer-but it has to be stressed: the occupation has made life incredibly difficult for Palestinians. This is just a survey of how it affects daily

Life and does not even begin to explore how the insane violence in some settlements like Yitzhar and Itamar and Hebron have ruined Palestinian lives, caused massive property damage etc. none of which is compensated for.

Thank you, I shall read your links through later.

Did you see that this week Al Jazeera English did an interesting report about the water?

AhNowTed · 15/07/2024 13:42

I found this terrific thread on X which I will link to, which some very useful maps.

The Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip: A Comprehensive Analysis

https://mem.ai/p/LnZtBLQtVz2gcSOfbHnN

https://twitter.com/Priyankar167304/status/1812632558808739946

A couple of extracts:

The most important area of water supply is the Northeast Aquifer Basin, which stretches into Israel proper. But Israeli settlements like Ariel (in particular) eat into this aquifer and essentially extract vast quantities of water at the expense of Palestinians.

And this is before we get to the fact they also pump large quantities of sewage into West Bank locales like Salfit. Consequently, not only do Palestinians have to face pollution from settlements; they also have far less water/capita than settlers (estimates run from 1/6 to 1/4).

The West Bank settlements also deprive Palestinians of access to the Dead Sea, which has minerals that Israel routinely extracts and that would be valuable for the Palestinian economy (see Arnon and Bamiya, 2016). Now we turn to the issue of outposts. All settlements need to be

Authorised before they can be built. But what often happens is that a few messianic settlers build an outpost somewhere deep in the West Bank, these are then legalised by Israel and added to existing settlements (E.g., 'Tekoa B' and the like). These outposts are more damaging to

Contiguity than anyone could anticipate. But the government keeps legalising them. Why? For two reasons. First, fear of messianic settlers and polarisation in Israel between the religious right and the government. But also a lot of state funds go into these very projects that are

Illegal under Israel's own laws. The Talia Sasson Report of 2005 found substantial state funding for the outposts. It was never acted upon: retroactive outpost legalisation has spread across large swathes of the West Bank. Despite the report exposing outposts for what they were

Which indicates just how pervasive the settlement enterprise has become. I won't comment on legality since I am not an international lawyer-but it has to be stressed: the occupation has made life incredibly difficult for Palestinians. This is just a survey of how it affects daily

Life and does not even begin to explore how the insane violence in some settlements like Yitzhar and Itamar and Hebron have ruined Palestinian lives, caused massive property damage etc. none of which is compensated for.

Mem

Let AI organize your team’s work—from meeting notes, projects, to knowledge bases. All instantly searchable and readily discoverable.

https://mem.ai/p/LnZtBLQtVz2gcSOfbHnN

ScrollingLeaves · 15/07/2024 13:07

It is sickening and surrealistic. On the one hand we see Palestinian people with carts full of corpses or of poor people trying to flee but with no where to go, looking like they are living 2000 years ago, while the USA, UK and Israel, with some of the most advanced weapons that the 21Century can provide, slaughter them, rip apart their lives and destroy their infrastructure without either successfully destroying Hamas, or getting back the hostages.

In fact they’ve probably killed a lot of hostages.

Finallyloggedin · 15/07/2024 12:00

It’s absolutely hideous. I still can’t fathom how the international community hasn’t bought peacekeepers in months ago. I know in reality it’s because many of the main players in the international ‘community’ support the genocide.

AhNowTed · 15/07/2024 00:03

‘The street was a pool of blood’: Gaza witnesses one of most violent weeks since first months of war

After Israeli airstrikes on a school and a humanitarian zone, survivors and officials tell of a ‘daily vision of horror

A school, and a humanitarian zone. And that's just this weekend.

www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/14/gaza-one-of-most-violent-weeks-israeli-airstrikes-school-humanitarian-zone

“After about 20 minutes, a truck came and they carried me with it, and it was full of corpses … And I was the only living person in the truck … This is enough, we have no energy left. We are tired. We don’t want anything, just to stop the war.”

Seriously, what is the point of this anymore. Their mission has failed. They are not going to defeat Hamas entirely. This is just pointless revengeful inhumane mass-slaughter.

And as has been said, and documented on other posts, without this war, Netanyahu is finished. His far-right cabinet is finished.

It's all pointless.

ticktickticktickBOOM · 13/07/2024 20:11

But you'd think they wouldn't leave an area until they had secured or destroyed the tunnels.

If they have cleared areas of Nothern Gaza - why can't they secure them and let women and children go there and start feeding and treating them?

They could have created a fair few safe havens in Northern Gaza for civilians by now. They clearly aren't bothering.

Are they just popping in and out again by tank via Erez? Why aren't Hamas combatting them at Erez if this is the case? Hamas don't appear to be doing anything to defend Gaza - so what is the point of them?

I find this conflict incredibly confusing.

EasterIssland · 13/07/2024 20:01

ticktickticktickBOOM · 13/07/2024 19:31

I wonder if anyone here can help me understand. Netanyahu has just said, in the press conference, that the IDF must launch these surprise attacks, otherwise Hamas will disappear into tunnels.

But - haven't the IDF been all over Gaza now? Wouldn't they have either occupied, booby trapped, blocked or destroyed the tunnels?

What are IDF actually doing on the ground?

I literally have no idea what's going on. Where are the IDF? Why is there no footage of them within Gaza?

Every time they leave an area they happily announce they’ve removed some hamas groups
they leave behind destruction, massacre and hamas , because not long after IDF has left hamas reappears in the area.

whar are they doing in the ground? War crimes.

ticktickticktickBOOM · 13/07/2024 19:31

I wonder if anyone here can help me understand. Netanyahu has just said, in the press conference, that the IDF must launch these surprise attacks, otherwise Hamas will disappear into tunnels.

But - haven't the IDF been all over Gaza now? Wouldn't they have either occupied, booby trapped, blocked or destroyed the tunnels?

What are IDF actually doing on the ground?

I literally have no idea what's going on. Where are the IDF? Why is there no footage of them within Gaza?

SummerFeverVenice · 13/07/2024 14:02

@AhNowTed
It’s yet another massacre. Death toll at 71 and counting.

SummerFeverVenice · 13/07/2024 13:59

ConnieCounter · 13/07/2024 10:00

I doubt it. They have other countries paying for their military.

How many deaths have there been in Israel since the offensive in Gaza began? After the October 7th attack I mean.

I think most of Israeli civilians currently dying in Israel because of this war are due to the Hezbollah rockets?
“The cross-border violence has killed at least 497 people in Lebanon, mostly fighters but also including 95 civilians, according to an AFP tally.
On the Israeli side, at least 16 soldiers and 11 civilians have been killed, according to the authorities.” - 9 July 24
https://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/306423-israel-hezbollah-border-clashes-latest-developments

anotherlevel · 13/07/2024 12:27

@AhNowTed absolutely horrific. We were just discussing this in the Rafah thread.

AhNowTed · 13/07/2024 12:22

Horrific scenes this morning

A massacre occurred in Mawasi Khan Yunis this morning (13.07.2024) after F-16 jets bombarded a displacement camp filled with tents. The attack has resulted in significant casualties and devastation, leaving many families in deep mourning and despair.

x.com/eyeonpalestine/status/1812083763494412718?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

Awful... poor little thing

An attempt to rescue a girl who died whilst tents of the displaced were being targeted in Mawasi Khan Yunis, south of the Gaza Strip.

x.com/eyeonpalestine/status/1812081481436565862?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

Finallyloggedin · 13/07/2024 11:23

Oystercavity · 10/07/2024 23:21

Part 4 before part 3 is full?

If that offends your sense of right and wrong, wait until you hear this -

There is no drinking water in Northern Gaza.

https://x.com/abu_salah9/status/1811820520398086254?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

x.com

https://x.com/abu_salah9/status/1811820520398086254?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Scirocco · 13/07/2024 10:06

Dulra · 13/07/2024 09:59

Is this a separate study to the analysis in the lancet? Very similar figures if it's separate

It's the same work as was published in the Lancet - Salim Yusuf is the third author of the article there.

ConnieCounter · 13/07/2024 10:00

I doubt it. They have other countries paying for their military.

How many deaths have there been in Israel since the offensive in Gaza began? After the October 7th attack I mean.

Dulra · 13/07/2024 09:59

PeasfullPerson · 13/07/2024 09:50

This is upsetting, researchers believe that for every direct death caused by the response in Gaza, there will be at least another four indirect deaths.

The researchers say that in some past conflicts, there have been nine indirect deaths for every direct death.

‘Yusuf, the director of the Population Health Research Institute at McMaster University in Canada, said that early in the conflict, he considered four to one a baseline ratio for Gaza, based on data from previous conflicts: at a minimum, he expected four indirect deaths for every direct death. But now he was worried that the final total could be much higher.
In the most recent draft of their analysis, Yusuf and his colleagues found the four-to-one ratio could mean 186,000 total deaths in Gaza. These numbers represent a staggering 8% of Gaza’s 2.4 million people.’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/12/gaza-death-toll-indirect-casualties

Is this a separate study to the analysis in the lancet? Very similar figures if it's separate

PeasfullPerson · 13/07/2024 09:57

I wonder if there will also be indirect deaths in Israel, as their military budget increases, which means less money available for health care and support services, and the damage the war has done to their economy.

PeasfullPerson · 13/07/2024 09:50

This is upsetting, researchers believe that for every direct death caused by the response in Gaza, there will be at least another four indirect deaths.

The researchers say that in some past conflicts, there have been nine indirect deaths for every direct death.

‘Yusuf, the director of the Population Health Research Institute at McMaster University in Canada, said that early in the conflict, he considered four to one a baseline ratio for Gaza, based on data from previous conflicts: at a minimum, he expected four indirect deaths for every direct death. But now he was worried that the final total could be much higher.
In the most recent draft of their analysis, Yusuf and his colleagues found the four-to-one ratio could mean 186,000 total deaths in Gaza. These numbers represent a staggering 8% of Gaza’s 2.4 million people.’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/12/gaza-death-toll-indirect-casualties

Why researchers fear the Gaza death toll could reach 186,000

War doesn’t just kill people through direct violence. Malnutrition, healthcare shortages and unsanitary conditions inevitably follow

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/12/gaza-death-toll-indirect-casualties

TakeMe2Insanity · 13/07/2024 09:11

SummerFeverVenice · 12/07/2024 08:46

More and more has been coming out about the deaths of Israeli civilians due to IDF ‘friendly fire’ that may marginally reduce the death toll attributable to Hamas terrorist atrocities.

It is important to note that many of these suspected deaths by IDF friendly fire were grave mistakes made in a highly chaotic situation. It is also important to note that even the highest estimates mean that only a small fraction of the 1,300 might not be attributable to a Hamas fighter.

But it is important to have accuracy and investigate these grave mistakes so that lessons learned can result in improved responses to terror attacks so there is then less danger to civilians from their own government’s military in future- both in Israel and other countries.

Apparently over 70 of the burned out cars were hit by IDF attack helicopters firing indiscriminately- not knowing if they were civilians fleeing or full of Hamas fighters with/without hostages being used as human sheilds. The only specific known was a case where 13 hostages, including children, were killed when the house they were being held captive in kibbutz Be’eri was repeatedly shelled by an IDF tank (1% of Oct 7th deaths)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-hamas-attack-hannibal-haaretz-b2575744.html

https://aje.io/8sozsl?update=3042362

Sadly many people continue to deny the IDF’s involvement in a chaotic situation.

Finallyloggedin · 12/07/2024 22:45

https://x.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1811481275519181280?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

“My daddy’s gone to heaven…that’s the [Israeli] drone that killed him”

x.com

https://x.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1811481275519181280?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

SummerFeverVenice · 12/07/2024 08:46

More and more has been coming out about the deaths of Israeli civilians due to IDF ‘friendly fire’ that may marginally reduce the death toll attributable to Hamas terrorist atrocities.

It is important to note that many of these suspected deaths by IDF friendly fire were grave mistakes made in a highly chaotic situation. It is also important to note that even the highest estimates mean that only a small fraction of the 1,300 might not be attributable to a Hamas fighter.

But it is important to have accuracy and investigate these grave mistakes so that lessons learned can result in improved responses to terror attacks so there is then less danger to civilians from their own government’s military in future- both in Israel and other countries.

Apparently over 70 of the burned out cars were hit by IDF attack helicopters firing indiscriminately- not knowing if they were civilians fleeing or full of Hamas fighters with/without hostages being used as human sheilds. The only specific known was a case where 13 hostages, including children, were killed when the house they were being held captive in kibbutz Be’eri was repeatedly shelled by an IDF tank (1% of Oct 7th deaths)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-hamas-attack-hannibal-haaretz-b2575744.html

https://aje.io/8sozsl?update=3042362

Israel risked lives of hostages by invoking Hannibal Directive on 7 October

Protocol is aimed at stopping the kidnapping of soldiers by any means necessary

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-hamas-attack-hannibal-haaretz-b2575744.html

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