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Conflict in the Middle East

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 4)

987 replies

Eyesopenwideawake · 09/07/2024 18:08

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/09/israel-gaza-hamas-hospitals/

I see the old thread is sadly almost full. I wonder how many of these I will start? 😢

OP posts:
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133
anotherlevel · 23/07/2024 10:45

It makes me physically sick that some people deny that the attack never took place and wasn't what it appeared to be initially. Absolutely diabolical that it's fine to say it didn't happen.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/07/2024 09:07

Haaretz:

Far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said during his Religious Zionism faction meeting in the Knesset that "Unfortunately, the high command in the IDF does not know its place, and instead of focusing on the war against Hamas, it voices political positions in favor of a reckless deal while exceeding its authority and duty," claiming that this is what brought about the October 7 attacks. "Stop talking and preaching, keep fighting and killing."

Monster that he is.

BelleHathor · 23/07/2024 00:23

Kindatired · 22/07/2024 23:38

I don’t think that David Collier is a very good journalist. I am absolutely confident that Fergal Keane OBE is an excellent journalist although he doesn’t do much in recent years for health reasons.

I’m sorry if this post veers a little obliquely off topic but there is some fascinating context

David Collier is a bit pathetic- he does bit of jobbing for those needing a bit of sensationalist poor quality pro Israeli propaganda. He appears to survive on his Patreon contributions, on line appeals for financial support and these little odd jobs. His main claim to fame is that he received an award from the same Yiddish language newspaper as Donald Trump- one of 100 individuals who do so annually

Fergal Keane as the name suggests is Irish.

David is anti-Irish because in May 2019 the Irish parliament (the Dáil) passed a motion that labelled the continued West Bank and East Jerusalem settlements
as de facto annexation and a barrier to a two state solution.

Six months later, the Israeli embassy published a report by David Collier which was the result of hours spent trawling through more than 10 years of tags, likes and posts on the Facebook /Twitter and other SM accounts, mostly of left wing politicians, especially Sinn Féin. Hundreds of social media accounts of the mouthiest activists and politicians were mined for antisemitism. He seems to have trawled through the 72,000 tweets of one particular mouthy activist- personally I’d never heard of her.

Trocaire, all of the Christian Churches, the Irish Times, the Irish National Teachers organisation, the Dáil ( Parliament), were slated. Trinity , Galway , Maynooth- all the universitie, slated.

One of the conclusions of his so called research:
“Irish Politicians swim in the sewers of rabid antisemitic activism looking for anything they can post to demonise Israel”.

Looks to me like Collier is a bit of a saddo with a colourful turn of phrase and a complete lack of objective research methods. I would not believe his posts unless they were corroborated by a more reputable source and he’s probably an Israeli government propagandist.

https://embassies.gov.il/dublin/NewsAndEvents/Documents/Collier%20Antisemitism%20in%20Ireland%20_final_online.pdf

Ooh derail away, that's what the kids would call a read!

Ariana Grande Singing GIF by The Voice
ScrollingLeaves · 23/07/2024 00:13

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Masked ‘settlers’. Do Jewish people usually mask themselves? Looking closely they certainly don’t look like white Jewish Western settlers to me

Yes Jewish settlers out to harm Palestinians do usually mask themselves. Isn’t it interesting to see how they don’t look like ‘white’ Jewish settlers but actually very like typical terrorists of the region?

Kindatired · 22/07/2024 23:38

I don’t think that David Collier is a very good journalist. I am absolutely confident that Fergal Keane OBE is an excellent journalist although he doesn’t do much in recent years for health reasons.

I’m sorry if this post veers a little obliquely off topic but there is some fascinating context

David Collier is a bit pathetic- he does bit of jobbing for those needing a bit of sensationalist poor quality pro Israeli propaganda. He appears to survive on his Patreon contributions, on line appeals for financial support and these little odd jobs. His main claim to fame is that he received an award from the same Yiddish language newspaper as Donald Trump- one of 100 individuals who do so annually

Fergal Keane as the name suggests is Irish.

David is anti-Irish because in May 2019 the Irish parliament (the Dáil) passed a motion that labelled the continued West Bank and East Jerusalem settlements
as de facto annexation and a barrier to a two state solution.

Six months later, the Israeli embassy published a report by David Collier which was the result of hours spent trawling through more than 10 years of tags, likes and posts on the Facebook /Twitter and other SM accounts, mostly of left wing politicians, especially Sinn Féin. Hundreds of social media accounts of the mouthiest activists and politicians were mined for antisemitism. He seems to have trawled through the 72,000 tweets of one particular mouthy activist- personally I’d never heard of her.

Trocaire, all of the Christian Churches, the Irish Times, the Irish National Teachers organisation, the Dáil ( Parliament), were slated. Trinity , Galway , Maynooth- all the universitie, slated.

One of the conclusions of his so called research:
“Irish Politicians swim in the sewers of rabid antisemitic activism looking for anything they can post to demonise Israel”.

Looks to me like Collier is a bit of a saddo with a colourful turn of phrase and a complete lack of objective research methods. I would not believe his posts unless they were corroborated by a more reputable source and he’s probably an Israeli government propagandist.

https://embassies.gov.il/dublin/NewsAndEvents/Documents/Collier%20Antisemitism%20in%20Ireland%20_final_online.pdf

ConnieCounter · 22/07/2024 21:54

So the IDF admitted that they did indeed leave him by himself to die after allowing their dog to maul him.

Posters making up fairy tales to deny this happened make my stomach turn.

AhNowTed · 22/07/2024 21:20

The story about the Downs Syndrome man was covered in Haaretz today.

I have a subscription.

The poster making wild theories is of course talking nonsense.

Here is the article in full.

Israeli Army Left Palestinian With Down Syndrome to Die After Dog Attack in Gaza Home
Mohammed Bhar, 24, died at his family's apartment in Gaza City after being bitten by an IDF combat dog during an Israeli army raid in early July. Ordered to evacuate the building at the time, his family found him dead a week later
Mohammed Bhar, a resident of the Shujaiyeh neighborhood in eastern Gaza City, was attacked by an Israel Defense Forces combat dog in his home in the beginning of July, and according to his family was left to die by Israeli soldiers.
A spokesperson for the IDF, replying to Haaretz's questions on the incident, confirmed it occurred, saying it was during a "significant exchanges of fire between IDF troops and Hamas terrorists," and adding that "the troops that gave initial medical treatment to the individual who was bitten in the apartment had to leave to ensure treatment was given to injured soldiers."
Bhar, 24, was an autistic man who also had Down syndrome. His family told the BBC and other news outlets last week that their home was stormed by soldiers on July 3, after a week of heavy fighting in the area, and that the soldiers aimed their rifles and weapons at them. Amid the chaos, Bhar thought the dog was playing with him. He patted the animal's head and said, "Leave me alone, habibi," even as the dog tore at his hand and continued to attack him.

Nabila Ahmed Bhar, Mohammed's mother, told the BBC and Andalou News Agency that as her son's arm was bleeding heavily, some of the soldiers took him to another room, seemingly to assess his wounds and treat him. The family was forcibly evicted from the home a few hours later, with Mohammed still in the next room. When they were finally able to return to their home a week later, they found him in the room, dead, with wounds that had barely been treated.

Members of the Bhar family have told the media they were trapped in their home during the IDF's operation in Shujaiyeh. In her conversation with the BBC, Nabila Bhar said her son had difficulty moving, and "didn't know how to do anything by himself." His mother and brothers, as well as nephews and nieces, took care of him.

Human rights organizations have reported since the beginning of the Gaza war that people with disabilities and their families find it harder to get to, and stay in, the IDF designated "safe zones," and they sometimes opt to stay at home under immense risk. In general, their ability to flee is extremely limited. According to a Human Rights Watch report from November, people with disabilities interviewed by the organization said they "lost assistive devices when Israeli strikes destroyed or damaged their homes, leaving them homeless and unable to get necessities."
Already before the current war, about 21 percent of Gazan households had at least one member with a disability.
'Suddenly, Mohammed fell silent'
Recounting the attack, Mohammed's mother said her son was terrified, and that she "pleaded with the army to call off the dog, telling them Mohammed was ill." She then told the soldiers she wanted to treat her son and had a first aid bag that could help. However, one of the soldiers told her that a military doctor with them would assist him.
"I could hear Mohammed moaning in pain. Occasionally, they would open the door, glance at him, and command 'Oskot' [Arabic for stay silent], then shut it again," Bhar recounted to the Middle East Eye website. "Then the soldiers exchanged gestures. A doctor who accompanied them entered the room, and suddenly Mohammed fell silent."
Nabila Bhar said she suspected the doctor administered a sedative, as she could no longer see or hear Mohammed after that. "I asked the soldier, 'Where is Mohammed?' He replied, 'Mohammed is gone.' I pressed, 'Gone where?' He insisted, 'He's gone. There is no Mohammed.'"

After that, the family was ordered, at gunpoint, to leave Mohammed behind and leave the neighborhood with other residents. Mohammed's sister, Sarah Bhar, has told journalists that two of her other brothers were arrested at the house by the soldiers. She believes Mohammed was left bleeding, and possibly died of thirst.

Sarah said her cousins were the first who managed to return to the family home – and they found Mohammed's body. Mohammed's brother Jibreel saw the body when he was allowed back after a week. "We thought he wasn't at home," he told the BBC. "But it turned out he had been bleeding and left alone at home all this time."
'The individual likely remained alone'
Last week, the IDF spokesperson told different outlets it was "looking into the report." Over the weekend, the IDF replied to Haaretz's query on the matter, confirming that the incident took place and added: "The IDF regrets any harm to civilians during combat operations." The IDF's response also mentioned that "several canines have even sacrificed their lives during combat" in Gaza.

The IDF said soldiers went into the Bhar's home during an operation in Shujaiyeh that included "significant exchanges of fire between IDF troops and Hamas terrorists."
It went on to say: "As part of the operation against the terrorists, the troops searched buildings using a canine. Inside one of the buildings, the canine detected terrorists and bit an individual. The troops provided initial medical treatment to that individual in a separate room within the building and urged his family to evacuate the apartment to avoid staying in the combat area.
"Exchanges of fire continued throughout the operation, during which an RPG was fired at our troops, hitting an IDF tank and causing injuries to soldiers, ultimately resulting in the death of one of them. Following the RPG strike, the troops that gave initial medical treatment to the individual who was bitten in the apartment had to leave to ensure treatment was given to the injured soldiers. At this point, the individual likely remained alone in the building. It should be emphasized that this incident underscores Hamas' practice of operating within civilian environments and using the civilian population as human shields."

We need to know it won't happen again'
While Mohammed Bhar's death caused outrage on social media in the Arab world, it was hardly mentioned in the Israeli media. Still, Israeli families of people with Down syndrome protested the incident last Wednesday, on the sidelines of a demonstration in front of the IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv calling for a hostage deal.

Olga Jitlina, the mother of a 5-year-old with Down syndrome, told Haaretz: "We're showing solidarity as special needs families, because that's basically our identities – for me it's a bigger part of my identity than being Jewish or Palestinian. It's something that brings us together. So we want to demand that the Israeli government and the IDF open an investigation to understand what happened."
Seeking better care for her child, Jitlina made aliyah to Israel from Russia – only to find herself protesting for other people who raised children with Down syndrome. "It's totally unacceptable for us as special needs parents, it's our nightmare," she said. "We need to know that it won't happen again, and that the people who would do this to special needs children wouldn't do this to our kids."

Mellowdramadrama · 22/07/2024 20:12

If you are not even aware that extremist violent settlers who terrorise Palestinians do sometimes wear masks, then there's not much you must be aware of in regards to settler violence.
Although, at times there isn't always a need for them to conceal their identity, as it is not the norm for them to face any consequences for their actions.

Mellowdramadrama · 22/07/2024 19:58

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👀
Where does one even start here
This post makes me think it's pointless to even bother

BelleHathor · 22/07/2024 19:54

poshsnobtwit · 22/07/2024 19:46

@SpicyKitty you do realize that not all Jewish people are white?

Imagine the pushback and accusations that would have been levelled if anyone else had said that
Interesting.

poshsnobtwit · 22/07/2024 19:46

@SpicyKitty you do realize that not all Jewish people are white?

poshsnobtwit · 22/07/2024 19:44

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Anyone with an ounce of logic would not make a post like this. "I should imagine..." isn't in any way a reliable explanation.

Would any of you leave your disabled son/brother in a war zone?

Did you read the article? It said they pleaded to see him after the soldiers locked him in another room, and the family were forced away at gunpoint. His mother is a 70 year old widow, who herself was very weak. But nice bit of victim blaming there.

SpicyKitty · 22/07/2024 19:40

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Dulra · 22/07/2024 19:31

Just watching more heartbreaking scenes from Gaza on C4 news. People getting displaced again, children being shot at again, children lost without their parents again, injured malnourished children trying to stay alive in hospital again.

Dulra · 22/07/2024 19:29

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Have you any evidence for anything you have posted here or is just your conjecture?

SpicyKitty · 22/07/2024 19:26

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ScrollingLeaves · 22/07/2024 17:45

LordPercyPercy · 21/07/2024 11:41

There's been a bit of an update on the dog attack story, seems it wasn't quite as straightforward as initially portrayed:

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1814930617080881243

Haaretz (Israeli news) has published this story. Presumably they check stories before publishing them.

I cannot get the whole article but they don’t start by saying “Israeli Army Left Palestinian With Downs Syndrome, Son of Former Hamas Terrorist, to Die After Dog Attack Carried Out During Raid on Home - a Gaza Terrorists’ Nest.”

Israeli Army Left Palestinian With Down Syndrome to Die After Dog Attack in Gaza Home

Mohammed Bhar, 24, died at his family's apartment in Gaza City after being bitten by an IDF combat dog during an Israeli army raid in early July. Ordered to evacuate the building at the time, his family found him dead a week later

Mohammed Bhar, a resident of the Shujaiyeh neighborhood in eastern Gaza City, was attacked by an Israel Defense Forces combat dog in his home in the beginning of July, and according to his family was left to die by Israeli soldiers.

ConnieCounter · 22/07/2024 12:33

Scirocco · 22/07/2024 12:27

There's no end to their suffering. Moving again. From one unsafe place to another.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/07/2024 11:09

Yeah when they all arrived walking across the fields together, the IDF soldier went over to the camera man and ordered him to stop filming. The camera man waits until the IDF soldier has gone back to the group of armed, masked Israeli terrorists and the camera man restarts filming.

The IDF knew the gang he was guarding intended to attack. They milled about waiting for him to come back after stopping the camera man before attacking.

They didn’t want their attack to be caught on camera.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/07/2024 11:00

SummerFeverVenice · 22/07/2024 09:16

There is an extended version of this clip showing the full context which only adds to the despicable nature of the attack.

https://x.com/luigidaniele10/status/1814751474242760985

Obscene behaviour by the “Israeli Citizen” terrorists and their private IDF bodyguard funded by US and U.K. money.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/07/2024 09:16

AhNowTed · 21/07/2024 10:57

Barbaric.

5 masked settlers armed with clubs attack a family at their home, hospitalising 2 - accompanied by the IDF who threatens the poor innocent family. The soldier says he is "protecting Israeli citizens".

These people are monsters.

Full video:

x.com/alhaq_org/status/1814720851880587265?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

There is an extended version of this clip showing the full context which only adds to the despicable nature of the attack.

https://x.com/luigidaniele10/status/1814751474242760985

x.com

https://x.com/luigidaniele10/status/1814751474242760985?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1815068111147610588%7Ctwgr%5E563b107150805980d7ad6498cbb2f2e4bc04b4af%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fnews%2Fliveblog%2F2024%2F7%2F21%2Fisraels-war-on-gaza-live-dozens-killed-in-israeli-raids-on-gaza-yemen

Dulra · 21/07/2024 18:47

ScrollingLeaves · 21/07/2024 17:19

Even in what David Collier says he has uncovered as being the real context for the BBC story, that

  • this was a family of terrorists,

-who couldn’t care less about Muhammad he implies, given there are no photos of him on Facebook or elsewhere(? ? We can see them)

-and he has a family member who despises disabled people, including Muhammed no doubt, given his mocking remark about the disabled appearance of an IDF soldier,

and that,

-as the story was reported by one of his brothers who is an Islamic Jihad propoganda reporter, it will be a lie,

-and the interview with his old mother will be a lie too as she is the widow of a Hamas terrorist

nowhere, do we learn that the man was not autistic, not born with Down’s Syndrome, not attacked by an IDF combat dog, the dog not called off until after it had mauled the man to the point of fatally injuring him. Or learn that the IDF sent for an ambulance for this man, or left his elderly (unarmed) mother with him to comfort him.

The family has called for an enquiry.

David Collier’s reasoning would seem to suggest that propaganda is only propaganda if it is Palestinian. He is just writing the truth on behalf of Israel. That if Ben-Givr or Netanyahu ( terrorists from a Palestinian point of view) had an autistic Downs Syndrome son killed by a Palestinian attack dog, that would be only to be expected; and that if had been one of these men’s wives reporting their son killed in this way, they could be dismissed as liars given who their husbands are.

Yes his account tells me all I need to know about how he views disabled vulnerable adults

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