This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 4)

That's a really terrifying number. I struggle so much to get my head around it all. Usually we listen to experts. Usually we listen to the UN like if they said there was genocide in Myanmar people listen and agree that's it's bad. When it comes to Gaza suddenly nobody is listening and everyone turns their back. Everybody listened to Israel, governments clambered to condemn Hamas and give Israel their support. Now we are all witnessing death and suffering on such a huge scale, experts are calling it genocide, they are calling it war crimes, experts have been saying for months that this isn't right and people can't hear it?

I just don't understand how they have seen what I have seen which is a teeny tiny fraction of what the people of Gaza have seen and they just don't care. It's worse than that, they call the people that do care names, try to shame them into silence, actively try to get people including charities to stop advocating for the people who experts say have lost almost 8% of their family, friends and neighbours in 9 months. I don't understand.

Previous message hidden as I copied and pasted the tweet from the Israeli podcasters who mentioned pressing a button and wiping out Palestinians.
As predicted statement is that the video was taken out of context and some strange doubling down. Happy that there are only 64 likes from 1.1 million views.
https://x.com/2NiceJewishBoys/status/1831646252489900327

As predicted, statement that the video was taken out of context, then some very strange doubling down. I'm guessing there must be a shortage of PR/Reputation agents available or their manager just does not like them. It's heartening that the tweet only got 64 likes from 1.1 million views.
There's quite a bit of chatter going on about some comments made on the podcast recently. We want to properly address that:

Firstly, the video circulating was taken out of context.

In the original recording, we made it very clear that we did NOT call for the genocide of the Palestinians; we were making a larger point about the fact that most Jewish Israelis do not care about the cost in civilian casualties on the Palestinian side required in order to secure the Jewish homeland.

Within that context, we entertained a hypothetical situation that would rid Israel of the imminent threat posed by our Palestinian enemies who OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT HAMAS and wish to kill us all - and would gladly go for another October 7th the moment they get their chance. Obviously, that hypothetical "button" doesn't exist.

When having to consider how to deal with the Palestinians in reality - things are more complex and nuanced. But that doesn't change the fact that when on the scale are our lives and safety OR the lives of our enemies - in this scenario, most Israelis do not care about the cost in civilian casualties in Gaza, as long as the main objective is achieved: eliminating the threat for good.

What everyone who's losing it seems to forget is that less than a year ago, thousands of Palestinians invaded Israel and raped, murdered, and burned alive countless women, children, babies, elderly, and kidnapped hundreds of hostages. Their ultimate goal was to conquer large parts of Israel and kill everyone. The only reason they failed to do that was our brave soldiers, cops, and civilians who fought heroically and sacrificed their lives so that we can be here today. We owe it to them to do everything - and we mean everything - so that this imminent threat from Gaza will NEVER show its ugly face again.

Since the Gazans have proven time and time again that their support of Hamas is indisputable, it is obvious to any Israeli that the only way to guarantee our future and safety here is to remove this threat from our vicinity, forever.

Now let's go over some data to support our claims:

^1. In a poll conducted by Mano Geva amongst Jewish Israelis in January 2024, 87% of them said they are for "complete annihilation of Hamas and continuation of the war until we obtain complete control over Gaza" (tinyurl.com/43jarn5j).^

^2. In another poll by Mano Geva (who's Israel's top pollster, by the way), this time from 18.11.23, 44% of the population were for Jewish settling in Gaza, as opposed to 39% who were against. (tinyurl.com/3bfhcx2d)^

^3. It's also worth noting that many victims of October 7th share our sentiments: This is a member of Kibbutz Beeri, saying: "I will come back to Beeri only after the very last Palestinian (in Gaza) is dead" (tinyurl.com/2aez6w57).^

^4. And this is Mia Shem, who was held hostage by Hamas. She says: "There are no innocent civilians in Gaza. They're all Hamas" (tinyurl.com/3tuve3js)^

5. Gazans have been polled again and again, and the vast majority of Gazans support Hamas and support October 7th (tinyurl.com/2tn3sv8m).

To conclude - the video clip circulating was taken out of context. The fact that most Israelis think that the threat posed from Gaza (and Gazans) must be rooted out by any means necessary is beyond any doubt. People from Gaza, the PA, and all around the world who support Hamas - are actively seeking to kill us and destroy the only Jewish state. And if you want to kill us - we will rise and kill you first.

We pray for our brave soldiers and wish for the complete annihilation of the enemy and the safe return of all the hostages.

https://x.com/2NiceJewishBoys/status/1831646252489900327

Thank you that is very interesting.
I do think the current death toll is a very optimistic estimate.

The important thing is that deaths attributable to a conflict still happen months and years after the war ends when they do these estimates. They calculate things like:

• premature deaths due to amputations/injury complications
• deaths due to untreated cancers, and other chronic conditions like liver failure, diabetes, asthma
• deaths due to malnutrition months later
• suicides & homicides from PTSD as much as years later.

So it’s not just deaths during a war, but attributable to a war.

That's the figure that diplomats are privately acknowledging behind closed doors at the UN according to some journalists I follow.
I said months ago that when the true extent of the atrocities is revealed there's going to be an extreme amount of anger. I also think part of the reason Netanyahu doesn't want to end the conflict is that he is clever enough to know once independent International observers confirm the extent and barbarity of what occurred the backlash will be extensive. In America even staunch MAGAs are starting to turn against Trump due to his position on the war.

They estimate that about 186,000 total deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza, which is roughly 7.9% of its population, by mid-June 2024
This high number is despite various ceasefire agreements over the past six months. If deaths continue at this rate – about 23,000 a month – there would be an additional 149,500 deaths by the end of the year, some six and half months from the initial mid-June estimate. Using the method, the total deaths since the conflict began would be estimated at about 335,500 in total.

That is so much higher than thought.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/05/scientists-death-disease-gaza-polio-vaccinations-israel

Opinion piece by Professor Sridhar, chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh.

Yedioth Ahronoth reported that rather than accepting that proposal, the Israeli negotiators submitted new demands, making changes to the proposals they themselves had originally made.

This has been happening from day one. It is obvious to everyone with their eyes open, they don't want a deal, a deal would mean stopping their offensive they may not get this opportunity again I worry they see it as now or never to get rid of Gaza

Regarding hamas not wanting to release the hostages but Israel PM not wanting either

—-

The Hostages Families Forum said this weekend that “the finding of the bodies yesterday is a direct result of Netanyahu’s thwarting of the deals.”
On July 25, a senior US Administration official told CNN that negotiators were “closer than we’ve ever been” and that it was “up to the Israelis to accept it.”

Yedioth Ahronoth reported that rather than accepting that proposal, the Israeli negotiators submitted new demands, making changes to the proposals they themselves had originally made.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/middleeast/netanyahu-derailed-hostage-deal-in-july-intl/index.html

I’ve the feeling you’re getting the wrong message from this thread as nobody has said that Jewish people are overall awful.

illegal settlers, yes they’re awful. Not because they’re Jewish but because they’re committing crimes.
idf members ? Many are awful. Not because they’re Jewish but because they’re committing crimes.
Israel government ? They’re awful , not because they’re Jewish. But because they’re committing crimes.

hostages aren’t released because hamas doesn’t want to. Agreed on that. But also cuz nentanhayu is more worried about doing politics Than about caring about them (few days ago he presented a map of the future Israel where the West Bank was not displayed).

The same government who were so kind to distribute leaflets requesting them to go to a designated safe area only to be bombed afterwards. Yup they’re so kind, caring and thoughtful.

seeming to be kind and well-meaning while secretly planning their murder

Don’t think Israel / IDF had thought that well. If Palestinians are scared to take their kids to vaccination and they don’t take it polio will spread. Not only within Palestine but neighbouring countries… wonder which country is near Palestine and at risk of Polio

Disgusting more war crimes. So now parents will not feel safe bringing their kids to these vaccination centers and who'd blame them they're sitting ducks.

It's really becoming a fuck you to everyone, the whole world is watching and still the IDF continues unabated and unashamed.

For people who don't like clicking on links, here's a picture.

https://x.com/AbbyMartin/status/1830990229316018409?t=uFgF-vF4ZGaIm-rJw-ccRQ&s=19

I wondered when this would happen.

Shocking and scumbags.

Buthaina Subeh is a mother that risks her life to support other women, all she asks is that that you raise your voice loudly.

‘We want to live a normal life among our children in safety, planning for the future. As women of Gaza, we have been completely destroyed psychologically. We have no dreams, no hopes. We only wish to stay alive: us and our children.

To women all over the world I say: form alliances and raise your voice loudly in order to stop the war and to respect human dignity.’

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/sep/04/gaza-is-hell-for-aid-workers-and-it-is-doubly-difficult-if-you-are-a-woman

On Ori Goldberg, he is an excellent follow based in Israel. Scrolling through his timeline you can really feel his exasperation as he realises that some people in his society have completely gone crazy with vengeance.
From yesterday:
1/ What is happening in Israel today? We should begin with what is not happening. Very few are calling for an end to the genocidal campaign in Gaza that is spilling over into the West Bank. We don't care about the Palestinians and fail to connect their plight to ours. --->
2/ Israel declared this war as having two goals: Destroying Hamas (all sorts of qualifications were added later as Hamas failed to be destroyed) and the return of the hostages. Most of us believed these goals to be commensurate, perhaps even complementary. --->
3/ The illusion of complementarity snapped yesterday, with the discovery of 6 dead hostages in a Rafah tunnel. Assuming they had been killed by Hamas, they were shot minutes before an IDF force raiding the tunnel arrived on the scene. Our offensive was killing the hostages. --->
4/ A major aspect of our murderous solipsism was the conviction that when we act in the interests of our "security" we can do no harm. At the heart of our axiomatic sense of supremacy lies the notion that saving Jewish lives trumps (pun intended) everything else. --->
5/ Because we believe ourselves to be the only real people (certainly in the region and maybe even in the world) we consider our continued existence to be a moral imperative. If we don't exist, nothing exists. "Security" (saving Jewish lives) is therefore sacred to us. --->
6/ We held on to this lie for 75 years (and 11 months). We held on to it so intensely that we could not articulate it to save our lives. It was the cornerstone of our existence. What we discovered is that "Security" can also kill us and not as a necessary sacrifice. --->
7/ The six hostages died a perfectly preventable death. Three of them could have been released months ago, had Israel agreed to a deal it had proposed and Hamas had accepted. They died because security had become synonymous with genocide and both countermanded life. --->
8/Of course, we can't actually say or think that. We still support "the war". We don't see any other option. We will "fight" until they stop, and we will tell them when they have stopped. It has been months since we proudly declared our total lack of empathy. They started. --->
9/ But we are now aware of the fact that our hallowed existence may be threatened by our Security. It is bewildering. Today's protests have taken many forms but most of them reflect confusion. We swore by Security because we thought it apolitical. What do we swear by now? --->
10/ This, I think, is unprecedented for us. Security - the notion that our lives mean more and that protecting them inculcates us against censure and repercussions - was our transparent point of origin. Without this illusion sustaining us we can sense madness in the cards. --->
11/ Needless to say, we are already mad. But this is deeper than sectarian strife that only maintains the illusion of morality, pitting "good" versus "bad". We are beginning to understand that we are patient zero. We can glimpse, at times, the walls of the asylum.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1830558841013952570.html

This is where the inaction of International bodies and politicians staying silent and allowing the Palestinians to be dehumanised so openly, so completely and so wholly has got us, these so called 2 lovely fellas openly advocating for sick, unthinkable things. Due to the backlash they may try and play it off as "just joking" but a show usually has an editor, a producer etc. Many people would have seen this and they still felt comfortable enough to click publish.

When this started in October a geopolitical analyst warned that true friends of Israel would have to reign her anger in, lest she go crazy with vengeance. True friends tell the truth, no matter how uncomfortable. By staying silent these are the kind of things that will be associated with parts of Israeli society forever.

Taking into account that some of the Israeli members speak like that … doubt they’d ban it

Hate speech aside, I am surprised the government allows it given how appalling it makes Israelis appear especially during these sensitive times. It hardly makes David Lammy today seem wrong, for example.

(I am sure there are many Israelis who are shocked by it too.)