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Conflict in the Middle East

The Lancet publish article estimating 186,000 death toll in Gaza

216 replies

AhNowTed · 08/07/2024 07:01

The Lancet has just published this article "conservatively" estimating that the death toll in the Gaza genocide could be 186,000 people or more. That's 8% of the population, obliterated.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Lolapusht · 08/07/2024 17:02

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2024 16:39

Unsure of the relevance of these as I used the word "visited" instead of "has watched twitter videos".

Ah, ok.

So we’re only allowed to comment on Gaza if we’ve visited and aren’t permitted to use any form of digital media to inform opinions.

Got it.

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2024 16:39

Unsure of the relevance of these as I used the word "visited" instead of "has watched twitter videos".

Liv999 · 08/07/2024 16:30

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2024 15:54

I would presume based on the detailed descriptions of the market that the op has visited these .I hope they come back to give more information on what life is like in Gaza at the moment as this would be very interesting.

It would indeed..

Lolapusht · 08/07/2024 16:15

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2024 15:54

I would presume based on the detailed descriptions of the market that the op has visited these .I hope they come back to give more information on what life is like in Gaza at the moment as this would be very interesting.

https://x.com/imshin/status/1810208279898862004?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw]]

https://x.com/imshin/status/1810153988056027296?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw]]

https://x.com/imshin/status/1809844358461390947?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw]]

x.com

https://x.com/imshin/status/1810208279898862004?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw%5D%5D

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2024 15:54

Liv999 · 08/07/2024 14:06

Is this some sort of sick joke?

I would presume based on the detailed descriptions of the market that the op has visited these .I hope they come back to give more information on what life is like in Gaza at the moment as this would be very interesting.

Liv999 · 08/07/2024 14:48

TomeTome · 08/07/2024 14:24

One, Ten, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand or more is too many to have slaughtered. The shame of these acts will be felt for generations and nobody worldwide will forget what has been done. There is no justifying this.

@TomeTome well said

TomeTome · 08/07/2024 14:24

One, Ten, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand or more is too many to have slaughtered. The shame of these acts will be felt for generations and nobody worldwide will forget what has been done. There is no justifying this.

Katiesaidthat · 08/07/2024 14:14

HowIrresponsible · 08/07/2024 09:03

Genocide would be 100% of the population gone no?

100% of the Jewish population wasn´t wiped out, it was still genocide.

DogInATent · 08/07/2024 14:14

I don't think the title is inflammatory, but I think it's accidentally both inaccurate and misleading. Not deliberately so.

The Lancet publish article - inaccurate, in that it's a letter not an article and whilst the difference may not be appreciated/understood by the OP it is important.

estimating 186,000 death toll in Gaza - misleading, as it implies an actual and current death toll which is neither the content or intent of the authors of the letter.

Efacsen · 08/07/2024 14:14

keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 14:11

No it doesn't !

It suggests 186000 HAVE died already. Obviously that is wrong

Not so - it clearly says 'estimating' in the thread title

Anyway

keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 14:12

Otherwise it would say final estimated toll or similar

keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 14:11

EasterIssland · 08/07/2024 14:06

I don’t think the title is inflammatory. The title matches what lancet has said : they estimate 186k die in Gaza.

No it doesn't !

It suggests 186000 HAVE died already. Obviously that is wrong

Marshmallowbrain · 08/07/2024 14:10

@Lolapusht 🫣

It's really worrying how some people actually believe this.

EasterIssland · 08/07/2024 14:06

keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 14:03

Maybe the OP should withdraw or change the thread title if there is an error to avoid people feeling it is inflammatory?

I don’t think the title is inflammatory. The title matches what lancet has said : they estimate 186k die in Gaza.

Liv999 · 08/07/2024 14:06

Lolapusht · 08/07/2024 13:36

You know there’s food aid in Gaza? In some areas, tinned food is lying in the streets uneaten as the people don’t want to eat it. Markets are full of fruit/veg (lots of it from Israel, at least they’re good for something), there’s meat available, sugar’s still expensive but available, not sure if the price is cigarettes has come down yet as that was really annoying the Gazans. Hamas recently captured, tortured and stoned some men for stealing food, I assume to set an example so they can continue to control distribution. If there are Gazans starving, it’s not because of Israel, it’s because of Hamas and the other terrorist groups who are keeping it for themselves or selling it. They take all that aid that should be given to those starving Gazans for free and sell it in the markets. That’s if there’s anyone that wants to buy it and why would you when you can get better food in the market?

The infrastructure to have a good life was left behind by Israel but was destroyed/taken over by Hamas. They could have built bomb shelters, desalination plants, had a thriving agriculture system to provide food but instead they dug up water pipes to make rockets, used concrete and money to build tunnels instead of humanitarian infrastructure and trashed the greenhouses/farms that were already very productive. Then, they launched the 10/7 knowing full well what the consequences for the people would be while the Hamas leadership skulked in Qatar on their 5* hotels posting videos saying they’re willing to sacrifice every last Palestinian in order to defeat Israel.

But sure, it’s all Israel’s fault.

Is this some sort of sick joke?

AhNowTed · 08/07/2024 14:03

ConnieCounter · 08/07/2024 13:41

Oh dear 🤦‍♀️

Melanie Phillips on QT and the stocked markets she'd "seen on YouTube" springs to mind.

OP posts:
keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 14:03

Maybe the OP should withdraw or change the thread title if there is an error to avoid people feeling it is inflammatory?

Efacsen · 08/07/2024 14:01

keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 13:53

Very well put and I totally agree. The thread title is a an inflammatory polemic as it suggests 1860000 have been killed.

Personally think it's more likely to just be a mistake [it says article in the URL and confusingly also on the actual page too] rather than 'inflammatory polemic'

.

keenforhelp · 08/07/2024 13:53

Efacsen · 08/07/2024 13:45

Two major problems with that thread from twitter unknowns

Hamas figures tho' unsubstantiated' are generally accepted by the US State Dept and many humanitarian bodies based on their longstanding experience of dealing with Hamas. The Israeli government is something of an outlier in persistently questioning the figures

These are not 'future deaths' these are adults and children who have been dying over the last 9 months - from starvation, lack of antibiotics for treatable infections, lack of medication for chronic conditions eg cancer, diabetes, heart disease etc and many other causes

I'm looking forward to informed comment from other experts replying on the Lancet website

Very well put and I totally agree. The thread title is a an inflammatory polemic as it suggests 1860000 have been killed.

Efacsen · 08/07/2024 13:48

ConnieCounter · 08/07/2024 13:41

Oh dear 🤦‍♀️

Indeed

Efacsen · 08/07/2024 13:45

Lolapusht · 08/07/2024 13:20

That is not a peer reviewed paper and is, as someone else has pointed out “correspondence” ie a letter to the editor ie an opinion piece.

It also uses unsubstantiated figures, extrapolates data in an irresponsible way and is hugely inflammatory.

For anyone watching to do a quick bit of research to ascertain how good this piece is, here’s a good thread that breaks down in excellent detail each proposition. You know, like good academic critical analysis.

x.com/supertolerant/status/1810094810318979503?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw

Two major problems with that thread from twitter unknowns

Hamas figures tho' unsubstantiated' are generally accepted by the US State Dept and many humanitarian bodies based on their longstanding experience of dealing with Hamas. The Israeli government is something of an outlier in persistently questioning the figures

These are not 'future deaths' these are adults and children who have been dying over the last 9 months - from starvation, lack of antibiotics for treatable infections, lack of medication for chronic conditions eg cancer, diabetes, heart disease etc and many other causes

I'm looking forward to informed comment from other experts replying on the Lancet website

ConnieCounter · 08/07/2024 13:41

Oh dear 🤦‍♀️

Lolapusht · 08/07/2024 13:36

Buddysbunda · 08/07/2024 13:15

It's just horrendous really isn't it. I can't begin to image how long it will take for life to begin to go back to 'normal' for Palestinians in Gaza. Can bodies recover from severe malnourishment as infants and children? Surely that alone will have long lasting effects on not just this generation but future generations too. The psychological effects of living under such intense stress and fear for a prolonged period of time are going to be enormous. The Infrastructure that is needed to support a healthy life has been so badly destroyed that it will no doubt take decades to repair.

I very much doubt we will know the full details of just how much damage has been inflicted on Palestinians for a very long time. It has just been an assault on all fronts, everything from education and healthcare to water and energy infrastructure to historical monuments have been destroyed. How you move on from that is anyone's guess really.

You know there’s food aid in Gaza? In some areas, tinned food is lying in the streets uneaten as the people don’t want to eat it. Markets are full of fruit/veg (lots of it from Israel, at least they’re good for something), there’s meat available, sugar’s still expensive but available, not sure if the price is cigarettes has come down yet as that was really annoying the Gazans. Hamas recently captured, tortured and stoned some men for stealing food, I assume to set an example so they can continue to control distribution. If there are Gazans starving, it’s not because of Israel, it’s because of Hamas and the other terrorist groups who are keeping it for themselves or selling it. They take all that aid that should be given to those starving Gazans for free and sell it in the markets. That’s if there’s anyone that wants to buy it and why would you when you can get better food in the market?

The infrastructure to have a good life was left behind by Israel but was destroyed/taken over by Hamas. They could have built bomb shelters, desalination plants, had a thriving agriculture system to provide food but instead they dug up water pipes to make rockets, used concrete and money to build tunnels instead of humanitarian infrastructure and trashed the greenhouses/farms that were already very productive. Then, they launched the 10/7 knowing full well what the consequences for the people would be while the Hamas leadership skulked in Qatar on their 5* hotels posting videos saying they’re willing to sacrifice every last Palestinian in order to defeat Israel.

But sure, it’s all Israel’s fault.

Lolapusht · 08/07/2024 13:20

That is not a peer reviewed paper and is, as someone else has pointed out “correspondence” ie a letter to the editor ie an opinion piece.

It also uses unsubstantiated figures, extrapolates data in an irresponsible way and is hugely inflammatory.

For anyone watching to do a quick bit of research to ascertain how good this piece is, here’s a good thread that breaks down in excellent detail each proposition. You know, like good academic critical analysis.

x.com/supertolerant/status/1810094810318979503?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw

EasterIssland · 08/07/2024 13:16

Parkingt111 · 08/07/2024 13:11

@LastTrainEast I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by referencing that we now have a labour government.
Could you elaborate please? Is it due to him (Starmer) calling for a ceasefire?

Edited

I also don’t know either what does the British government have to do with the lancet who are the ones that have predicted 186k deaths. And who have to be the ones defending the Jews. Also I assume the other poster meant 7-10 rather than 7-7 which were the London attacks ?