Support for Palestine at Glastonbury

You are still presenting a very one-sided view of the pre-7/10 conflict, despite @Shutupaboutthesun putting some much needed balance into the conversation.

I can’t speak for @keenforhelp but I think she is talking about the current war.

I am so tired of being told ‘this didn’t start on 7 Oct’. WE ALL KNOW THAT. But the current war did start then. There was a ceasefire til Hamas broke it!

@keenforhelp

"The Palestinian governing body started this conflict."

If you can't see that the conflict started before 7/10, I don't know what to say to you.

If you're content with Palestinians living under a 70+ year blockade and apartheid, their homes bulldozed and their lands stolen, and in 2023 alone 502 shot by the IDF, many of them children, I don't know what to say to you.

Keep dreaming that this started on 7/10.

Maybe you think the troubles started on Bloody Sunday.

Or apartheid South Africa started when Mandela was imprisoned.

I’d like to see as well those stadistics that say 80% of the Palestinians want to kill the Jews.
this is one of the latest statistics

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-support-for-hamas-on-the-rise-among-palestinians-now-double-fatahs/amp/

support for Hamas in the Palestinian territories stood at 40% (It was around half before 7-10)

Armed struggle is considered by a little over half of Palestinians (54%) to be the preferred option to end Israeli rule and establish a Palestinian state, while only a quarter chose negotiations, and 16% opted for “nonviolent resistance.”
The survey, which sampled 1,570 adults divided almost equally between the West Bank and Gaza,

——

can’t understand how 80% want the Jews to be killed when not even 50% of the Palestinian population supports Hamas and other groups.

its interesting how numbers are thrown to justify what Israel is doing against Palestinians , but the numbers don’t align with the reality. As I said again , some people will minimise , deny or justify the killing of innocent civilians. And they’ll get outraged when not everyone agrees with them. Artists have been speaking up against Israels actions and war crimes for a while now, Glastonbury wasn’t going to be any different

So it would seem.

Interesting that some of the posters who are so upset that Albarn didn't mention the hostages are the same posters who were outraged when posters mentioned the 274 (that was the figure reported at the time anyway) people who were killed during the rescue of 4 hostages on a thread a few weeks ago.

Some animals are more equal than others it seems.

@Shutupaboutthesun It seems that you are essentially arguing the logic as the Palestinians can't have a state, because they can use it as a base to attack Israel. But what is the alternative? One simply can not indefinitely deprive millions of people of their autonomy and freedom and subject them to foreign control indefinitely. Palestinians may feel that the fact Israelis can have a state means they have a base to attack Palestinian locations, which does happen. So the logic of denying people a state because they may attack you is rather one sided. I also wonder if, after the second intifada, Israel could have stopped all travel between Israel and the West Bank. This would have kept Israelis safe from terrorists entering and provided some security. It seems Israel has good intelligence and defence systems, and is much wealthier than the West Bank, so it seems likely they could pick up on any planned attack by air. I don't see any winners with the current attitudes. I think there are politicians on both sides who would support a peaceful solution, but there must be a recognition of the common humanity between the different peoples. There has to be an end to violence as a solution. It isn't, and only leads to suffering, death, and deep trauma.

I'm not sure what your trying to suggest? I haven't seen that stat and would query it and its legitimacy anyway, but why would that stat mean I could not feel sympathy for innocent Palestinians? Why are you unable to acknowledge their suffering yet openly criticise others who you feel have not acknowledged the trauma of the Israelis caught up in the terrorist attack on Oct 7th? You sound like a hypocrite to me

But a stat earlier in the thread stated 80% support in Palestine for annihilating Jews .

To support Palestine is to support an unrecognised state whose stated intention is to annihilate the Jews

This is what I'm referring to. To me this quote suggests no one should be supporting Palestinians they are not deserving of our sympathy because they are not a recognised state and want to annihilate Jews. Which is a bizarre and cruel position to take in my opinion

Even more bizarre.
Telling somebody they are cruel for querying a pop star's reasons for a certain comment.

Completely bizarre.

Kinda my point you have said NOTHING about their suffering whatsoever and have even accused people that have as being anti-semitic. I queried your cruel words already on this thread, I quoted you so you saw it but didn't respond so no it wasn't a bizarre comment.

I think Netanyahu's strategy with the settlements in the West Bank was to prevent the emergence of any viable Palestinian state there. And the reason he wanted to prevent such a state was because he considered it would pose an intolerable security threat to Israel. Of course there is a fanatical minority of religious Jews who want to claim the West Bank because it's the heart of biblical Judea, but I don't think that was Netanyahu's motivation (he isn't religious). His strategy was purely pragmatic: build a whole lot of Jewish settlements there and the Palestinians will not have a base from which to attack. The West Bank is on high ground overlooking most major Israeli cities, so I can understand the logic, even while i agree that it creates a very unfair situation for the Palestinians.

It must be remembered that the Netanyahu strategy only gained favour with the Israeli public following Arafat's rejection of the offer of a Palestinian state in 2000 and the decision to launch the second intifada. It wasn't reported much in the West, but the second intifada was absolutely brutal and radicalised a lot of Israelis - they were being blown up on buses and in restaurants every week. Over a thousand civilians were killed by suicide bombers and it only stopped when the IDF reoccupied parts of the West Bank and restricted travel between the WB and Israel.

There was also the lynching in 2000, when two Israelis took a wrong turn and ended up in Ramallah, where a crowd of Palestinian civilians beat them to death and then literally tore them apart and paraded through the streets holding their internal organs aloft. This wasn't Hamas, it was ordinary Palestinians who did this. I think the period between 2000-2002 was when a lot of Israelis gave up on the idea of peace with the Palestinians.

Pre-October 7, I was very much in favour of a Palestinian state. It isn't right that one group of people should remain stateless for so long. But I also don't see how a society that is so radicalised on jihad and Jew-hatred is going to run a successful state. It seems inevitable that any Palestinian state - even one not run by Hamas - would quickly devolve into a mire of corruption and terror, which would in turn spark another war in the region.

Israel too is becoming more radicalised and now has crackpot Jewish supremacists like Ben Gvir serving in the cabinet. You are correct that the settler movement and the Israeli far right are a huge obstacle to any peaceful settlement. But they are still a minority in Israel, and my sense is that if a movement for peaceful coexistence emerged on the Palestinian side, it would get a huge positive response from the majority of Israelis. The Western left really isn't helping things by encouraging the Palestinians in their racism and irredentism and joining in their 'from the river to the sea' fantasies of finally exterminating or expelling the Jews. (BTW the Arabic version of that chant translates as 'from the water to the water, Palestine will be Arab', which makes things a little clearer, doesn't it?). No one who is seriously interested in human rights in the region should be doing anything other than promoting coexistence and sharing of the land between Arabs and Jews.

The Palestinian governing body started this conflict.

I've said NOTHING about Palestinians whatsoever .

Bizarre comment.

Reasons why I think you’ll see loads of support for Palestine and artists might not speak up about Nova. Maybe because for many this didn’t start on 7-10. So whilst we are sorry for all the victims of that day, we also recognise what Israel is doing has nothing to do with self - defence but war crimes

"If you’re only sympathetic to one group of innocent victims then how caring are you really?"

It is heart warming and I'm sure you'd fail to meet many there that would disagree with its message. Many of us have enough space in our hearts to recognise and sympathise with the pain on both sides. Something I rarely see from you.

Heartwarming indeed @keenforhelp

Heartwarming to see this at Glastonbury today.

Ok but that's not anti-semitic so rephrase it please.

You have said pretty cruel things about Palestinians in this thread so maybe you need to practise what you preach a little by acknowledging the pain and trauma on both sides

@keenforhelp

"Why celebrate Albarn's words at this setting when he deliberately failed to mention the genocide at Novas?"

Do you mention the genocide in Gaza alongside the genocide at Nova?

It is a music festival @Dulra !
The same setting of the worst ever terrorist attack (relegated to an atrocity by some ).

Why celebrate Albarn's words at this setting when he deliberately failed to mention the genocide at Novas?

Bring the hostages home and stop killing innocent civilians should surely be what people are focusing on!

I corrected your sentence

I totally agree. And of course I, and any right minded sane person would have every sympathy for those innocent young people attending a festival.

I do think this.

No one noticed (at least on a wider scale eg social media, and the prominence it now has) the ongoing slaughter of Palestinians in the WB, the bulldozing of their homes and stealing of their land.

In 2023 up to 7/10, Israel shot 502 Palestinians, including 120 children. The worst year for Palestinian deaths on record.

No one noticed until Israelis lost their lives.

Only then did it become something that ordinary folks were aware of.

Of course 7/10 was an atrocity.

It also awakened the average person to the grotesque injustice the Palestinians have been living under for more than 70 years.