Support for Palestine at Glastonbury

@AhNowTed @ConnieCounter I'm talking about the findamentals that would be on the table as part of negotiations for a deal. Yes currently extremists have disproportionate power in the current government & the nature of a war like this is it tends to galvanise people who wouldn't otherwise support netanyahu (united front when under threat is human nature.

@SharonEllis

Let me try again.

You can dismiss the settlers as "extremists", but if those extremists are afforded the protection of the IDF and police, allowing them to continue to brutalise the Palestinians with impunity, how does that help Israel's security.

If Israel was genuinely "only interested in its security", why allow this to happen.

Yes I see that said here a lot. But this extremism is encouraged and supported by successive governments so we can't blame it on a few extremists. It's government policy.

Obviously terrible. Sorry, not sure what you are getting at?

@SharonEllis

"The West Bank settlers are extremists. They dont represent the majority of Israelis."

No, but they are afforded the protection of the IDF and police.

So they continue with impunity.

How does that make a Palestinian on the West Bank feel.

The West Bank settlers are extremists. They dont represent the majority of Israelis.

The illegal settlers are awful human beings. Some weren’t even raised in israel . I’ve seen a video of one family with a full blown NYC accent 🙄 it’s like are you serious??

So why are they constantly taking their homes and land in the West Bank? How does that help their security?

Hamas rejects the deals because it wants a permanent ceasefire. The Israeli government rejects them because it wants the war.

Entirely agree with you.I'm sure Israelis actually have no desire to control Palestinians (apart from a few extremists). They just want security.

@SharonEllis I do hope they find political representatives who can improve their lives, who put the welfare of their people first and are pragmatic rather than ideological. At the same time, I think they must have freedom from Israeli control and occupation.. I'm not one for slogans. I only know that all people deserve to live in dignity and freedom.

He did do a deal. He released lots more Palestinians for each hostage. My understanding is the last deal was rejected by Hamas. I agree he appears to want the war because, for now, it keeps him in power. If Hamas surrendered there would be no legitimate grounds for war.

So for clarity, you are saying that it’s the fault of the Israeli government (for the avoidance of doubt, that’s implied in my use of ‘Israel’ in my question) that, if Hamas is doing anything to protect its civilians, we don’t know what that is.

Is that what you are saying?

I have to disagree. If he wanted the hostages back he would have agreed to a deal. He wants this war. The hostages aren't relevant to him regarding whether he continues it or not.

They are. Fanatics for whom their own people are pawns in their own game. We do seem to lose sight of this. They encourage suicide bombers fgs. Why the 'free Palestine' movement isn't inherently 'free Palestine from Hamas' I will never understand.

Yes, I take your point but the whole scenario would have been different if they had done it, and done it earlier in the war. I dont think Netanyahu would have had support from allies if there were no hostages - but it would have obviously had to have been part of a wider surrender. Obviously no nation would tolerate a state lead by terrorists who had committed an act as heinous as 7/10 right on their doorstep. Israel is right that Hamas has to be dismantled - on that we are all agreed, right?

@SharonEllis I have to agree that Hamas most likely knew the response would be unprecedented. Who knows what they were thinking? These people are fanatics.

I stated the fact that the Israeli government ( not Israel) has a media blackout on reporting from Gaza. Freedom of the press is the cornerstone of any democracy. Make of it what you want.

Netanyahu disagrees with you on the hostages point.

They knew full well there would be a major assault in response - its inconceivable thst they didn't anticipate it. Whether the response has been proportionate is a separate issue but of course there would be a large scale invasion in response to such a ferocious terror attack.

They wouldn't have had to live in the tunnels for 9 months if they had released the hostages.

Yes there's definitely a huge question mark around that.

But can 2 million people live in those tunnels for 9 months?

Also I don't think it's reasonable to say that people should have seen Israel's response coming. I thought I knew what fucked up things Israel is capable of but their behaviour since October has shocked and sickened me.

Bomb shelters? It has miles of underground defences.
Hamas doesnt appear to have made any preparations for a war it knew it would result from its attack on 7 October. No nation on earth would have tolerated that attack without retaliation. Most countries anticipating a war invest in civil defence.
We do seem to have lost sight of the fact that Hamas could have released the hostages & surrendered.
As ever the innocent civilians of Gaza completely at the mercy of the war games of their own leaders. My mind boggles every time we have this conversation that Hamas bears so little responsibility.

So again, am I understanding correctly.

Hamas isn’t doing anything to protect its civilians. (Or if it is, we don’t know, which is Israel’s fault).

How do you defend against relentless air bombardment?

Am I understanding this correctly.

Hamas isn’t doing anything to protect its civilians.

Or if it is, we don’t know, which is Israel’s fault.