Support for Palestine at Glastonbury

You said it can be supported because of the October attacks.

@EasterIssland

I hadn't seen that article. It is terrifying for the Palestinians in the WB.

It led me to the Twitter feed of Mairav Zonszein. Will give her a follow.

Mairav Zonszein, a senior analyst for Israel-Palestine at Crisis Group, said: “The big story is that this is no longer ‘creeping annexation’ or ‘de facto annexation’, it is actual annexation.

Its so tiresome and depressing. There really is very little point in trying to explore anything beyond sloganeering.

I agree you didn't say that.

Strange how some mishear whatever is said to suit their own bias or narrative.

That's not what I said, is it......

People rightly condemn setler violence.

People don't support war crimes but people understand the danger Hamas pose for Israel and how awful they are for the people of Gaza and do want a terrorist organisation stopped.

Israel withdrew from one whilst controlling it and imposing restrictions

So some people can justify the war crimes because it's revenge for the October attack. Thanks for clarifying.

Because they are very different situations? They are run by two different entities.? One attacked Israel in the worst attack since the Holocaust murdered over 1000 people and took hostages which they are still holding? one did not? Israel withdrew from one. in the other they are encouraging illegal settlements?

I wish you’re right and whatever is said behind close doors (if anything) would have some effect. Right now it doesn’t feel like Israel is listening much and to be honest all this sounds like a recipe for disaster

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/20/idf-transfers-powers-in-occupied-west-bank-to-pro-settler-civil-servants

Of course they haven't withdrawn aid to Israel. They know that Israel can't afford to be undefended against Iran and their proxies/allies. But The US has criticised Israel and you have no idea what has been said behind the scenes (where most conversations happen) and that doesn't mean that when, inevitably, the time comes for a peace settlement they won't bring pressure to bear on the wider picture (we were talking about the WB after all). Anyway, I'm getting the feeling that you don't want to understand what I'm saying. As is so often the case on these threads people want to keep going over the same talking points without looking for possibilities to develop them. Have a good evening.

I'm confused. I don't understand why there seems to be near universal condemnation of the settler violence in the West Bank, even from those who minimise and justify Israel's actions in Gaza? I don't understand how a person can see that one is clearly wrong but supports what are clearly war crimes in Gaza.

They haven't stopped funding Israel's war machine or criticised them in any meaningful way regarding their heinous crimes in Gaza so I don't see why they'd object to the crimes in the West Bank.

Yes, I think and hope you’re right.

Ok, well we'll see. Maybe you're right, maybe not. I would say that this war has changed things pretty significantly and that a lot of things will be on the table now that weren't a year ago. Not least because neither the US or the other nations in the region want this situation to go on indefinitely. So, I'm not really sure that you are right that Israel's backers will allow it to continue now.

I don't see how it's unsustainable because Israel and its backers don't want to stop it and allow it to continue. So how is it unsustainable in reality? It's been sustained for decades.

NB she did not say that Israel might as well take over the whole WB. Just that a deal will need to be made around parts of the land and the population. Some people really are trying to think around the complexity of the situation, rather than simplify things down to simple binaries.

@ConnieCounter I think its unsustainable to have the citizens of one country settling in another indefinitely as a haphazard occupation, with the violence and legal ambiguities that result. I'm surprised that you think otherwise?! I think most people are agreed on that and the settlements have been deemed illegal.

I think you have mischaracterised what @Shutupaboutthesun was saying though. If you read it calmly and in good faith, it is exactly the sort of pragmatic thinking that is going to have to go on to reach a sustainable deal for a 2-state solution.

'....given the impracticality of uprooting 500,000 Jewish settlers from the West Bank, incorporating some of the larger settlements into Israel, rather than into a future Palestinian state which won't want them anyway, seems like the best solution. Land swaps which compensate the Palestinians for settlements were proposed in the peace talks of 2000 and 2008, and would inevitably feature in any future peace deal...'

She made the very good point that 'Israel has a large Arab minority and this has only been positive in discouraging inter-ethnic violence by helping Jews and Arabs to see each other as human beings with whom they have to get along. It puzzles me that many leftists ... take it for granted that a Palestinian state in the West Bank should by rights not include any Jews.'

Unsustainable how? There were posts here today saying thar Israel may as well just take it over seeing as they've already claimed so much of it. Which is obviously the point of the policy.

Agreed.

Not allowed to ask that.

Israel bad. Hamas don't give a shite about their people and that's ok since just blame Israel for everything.

@SharonEllis @stormy4319trevor

Understood, thanks.

The terrifying rhetoric out of some government ministers mouths doesn't help either.

Noone thinks it will be easy....
There is widespread recognition that the WB situation is unsustainable.

@AhNowTed Yes. I think the occupation seems to be maintained systemically through some of the main institutions of Israel. That makes it very difficult to unpick, even if the majority of the population disagrees with it.