Disgusting comments like this normalised

This comment reminds me of what my kids say when I first explained to each of my children the situation in Northern Ireland. We visit family there. Their reaction is always well Britain should give it back and the people who don’t like it should leave: it’s a very simplistic view of justice. I tell them their dead are buried under our feet and their history is all over the land. Right now they have as much right to be here as we do.

Obviously NI is a very different situation but there are lessons to be learnt from the peace process. Whatever about the rights and wrongs of it’s creation, today Israel exists, most people who live there were born there and they have as much right to be there as anyone else. Israel has a right to exist because it does exist. Obviously I believe, Palestinians also have a right to thrive in a country of their own. In fact, I think it is the only possibility that will lead to peace.

But my long winded point is that you need to deal with the situation now. It is possible to move on from the injustice and NI is proof of that.

Also just to add, I saw "zio" used all over social media during the Corbyn era by his fan club. This was well before 7th Oct. This thinly veiled antisemitism did not suddenly appear in Oct 2023.

Well said.

Yes the existence of Israel as it is is a fact. As to what an alternative solution is well as a start the current government could withdraw the settlements from the West Bank, agree a ceasefire and withdraw any military from Gaza, all hostages released (including Palestinian ones in Israeli prisons and detention camps) and allowing access by media and aid into Gaza and then the creation of a Palestinian state in which people can have the ability of freedom of movement and progress and the end of occupation. But that will never happen because Israel
wil never allow it to sadly and many Zionists are anti this (of all faiths).

I'm talking more about the people on here who proclaim to be proudly anti-Zionist and that Zionism is evil and bloodthirsty.

How is it making you look like a villain. You’re the one who said it is anti semitic to think Israel’s should not exist and I’m making the point that the Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed for it to take shape are probably just mourning the loss of their homes and land - they aren’t being anti semitic.

Jew and Muslim? Are there even any Jewish people living in Palestine? Aside from the remaining hostages.

There have always been antisemites. They have been using Zionist as a code word to demonise Jews for a long time....

People aren't getting their view of Zionists from members of the Israeli government, they're getting their view of Zionists from people who popped up straight away on October 7th with the lines about bloodthirsty Zionists killing babies, controlling the media, the governments of other countries, wanting to take over the world.

And those lines about Zionists/Jews can be traced back to the fake Protocols of the Elders of Zion from 1903, and beyond.

If you read what people say about Zionists now and about Jews then, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

It's not a matter of being against what happened. It's not in doubt that atrocious things happened in the Nakba/War of Independence, and it's not antisemitic to be angry about them, mourn losses or regret things that happened in the past. It's normal. To me, as a leftist Israeli it is important to listen to and understand their stories and to work for a just and lasting resolution to the conflict and to defend the rights and push for equality of Palestinian Arab citizens in Israeli society.

What can be antisemitic, however, is suggesting that the state of Israel today should cease to exist. Because the clock can't be turned back. There is a state of Israel with 9.5 million citizens. Most of them were born in Israel and aren't citizens of any other state, the vast majority were not even born when the state was created, and of those who founded the state of Israel, very many of them came to Israel following violent antisemitism in their previous countries. Anyone wanting to express a non-antisemitic anti-Zionism, might, for example, come up with an alternative option which would plausibly secure the safety, thriving and national identities of both Jews and Palestinians - preferably without this solution being entirely detached from the political reality of the Middle East (for example, the suggestion that both sides can just get along, without, for example, looking at the reality that even without the Middle Eastern political reality, most states which are made of two competing national groups tend to fall apart into bloody civil war - cf the Balkans).

I brought them & their parties up as examples of why some members of the public might today associate Zionism with racism and homophobia.

I agree their racism, homophobia does not make them Zionist, but these other views do make some people associate those views with some Zionists. Especially since the media runs on outrage so the worst examples of Zionists are in the news far more often than the reasonable, pacifist, liberal minded Zionists- who are the majority.

So then, as noblegiraffe stated, all Zionists end up being demonised unfairly because protesters are bumbling into a fundamental misunderstanding of Zionism itself.

And I sincerely think that as a result “zio” has been weaponised as a stand in for “Jew” so blatantly antisemtic things can be said, written and so on with a simple word switch.

You do realise how many Jewish people were ethnically cleansed and murdered from the surrounding countries at this time? Iran, Iraq, Libya etc all had large Jewish populations and now have none. If they didn't have Israel to go to where would they have gone....this is why it is so important and needed to have a Jewish state..(and if you support a Jewish state you aren't anti-zionist btw) and I think this fact can't be seen more clearly now with the blatant anti-Semitism it seems to be acceptable to post on social media today. When we have students, who are typically "left" leaning supporting Islamist terrorists, something has gone wrong. Hamas propaganda is working and it's crazy to see it play out.

It’s sick. Antisemitism never went away

Have you seen how many proud zionists what?

Is that the start of a joke?

I don’t think the point is to make you feel a villain it’s that the actions are what has caused the feeling not the religion.

Oh look, another one who gets their enjoyment from making me look like a villian. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself hun.

I would say I have a good understanding and diverse experience.

Which religion do you openly practise, out of interest?

@Ketzele I can only report my own experience as presumably you can only report yours. I would say I have a good understanding and diverse experience. It isn’t always ignorance that makes people disagree and no two posters will have the same history. I’m not suggesting there isn’t antisemitism, what I said is that I don’t think it’s the fact Israelis are Jewish that is making people condemn the slaughter of Palestinians, just as I don’t think it’s the fact that Palestinians are predominantly Muslim that garners sympathy.

I wonder what you would say to the Palestinians that were ethnically cleansed and removed from their homes for Israel to exist. That their wish they hadn’t been and that their families hadn’t been murdered….how would you call their thought process? Is that anti semitism also for being against what happened? For many it is still in their living memory.

Or even homophobic. 🤦‍♀️

As for the ridiculousness of pretending all zionists are homophobic... well, I've been lesbian in Israel and I've been lesbian in Egypt, and guess which one was easier.

I think you're rather illustrating my point, TomeTome. I have Jewish heritage but I'm not religious, I don't keep a Jewish home and I have been fiercely critical of successive Israeli governments. But I've been aware of the hum of antisemitism all my life and sometimes it rears up and shows its teeth. This is one of those times.

My grandad (a survivor of Nazi Germany) used to tell me I was living in a liberal postwar bubble and one day I would understand. And I would say the same to you. He died a few years ago and I'm glad because the current wave of antisemitism would break his heart.

You say in your experience people don't care about religion but - excuse me for asking - are you Jewish or Muslim? Because if not, you've got a lot more listening to do.

All the banners and protests and watermelons in the UK won't make any difference to the ME situation. But we can make a difference to the amount of collateral damage created here: the Jew-hatred and Muslim- hatred in our own country. If you don't care about that, you're not being serious in your claim to want peace.

Yes, it's like pointing to the BNP as justification for linking being British with being racist and homophonic.

But why just bring up Smotrich and Ben Gvir? All of the Jewish-Israeli political parties define themselves as Zionist - including Meretz, whose policies are entirely the inverse of Smotrich and Ben Gvir's - they are vehemently against the occupation, antiracist, and pro LGBT rights. What makes the parties Zionist is their support of the continued existence of the State of Israel, not racism and homophobia.

Jewishness is not just a religion but also an ethnicity. I recognise your name from these boards and know you have been around here for some time, so it seems pretty astounding that you are not aware of this.

Plus there are countless, well-documented examples of antisemitic acts since 7th Oct that have precisely nothing to do with the victims' religion. Or are you suggesting that Jews in the US and Europe are somehow to blame due to their "actions" for these crimes committed against them?

My experience is that people aren’t at all hung up on religion but more focused on behaviour. It is obviously material to those caught up in this nightmare but really if it was Christian’s behaving as Israel and their supporters are behaving I think the response would be the same. The vast majority of people in the uk don’t have a religion central to their lives and do not practice one.of those that do it is rare to find one that is intolerant of others religion. I appreciate that may be different in different parts of society but that’s my experience.