Disgusting comments like this normalised

Expelling Jews from the region is a step further than wiping Israel from the map - the view that I've generally heard put forward is for a one state solution which isn't Jewish (so not Israel, that's gone), with a Palestinian government, where Jews and Palestinians rather optimistically live happily ever after together.

That poll has some incredibly odd results in it though. 2% of those who say that they have more sympathy with the Israeli side say that they support expelling all Jews from the region, and 1% of those who say that they sympathise more with the Palestinian side support expelling all Palestinians from the region.

The poll suggests that there are quite a few people who will say that they sympathise with one side more than the other, but not really have a coherent view of what should happen.

It should also be noted that the wording is 'sympathise with', not 'support'. 44% of those who say that they sympathise more with the Palestinian side say that they also sympathise with the Israeli side to some extent, and 43% who sympathise more with the Israeli side, sympathise with the Palestinians to some extent. A quarter polled said that they sympathise with both sides equally, and 31% said they didn't know who they sympathised more with. The vast majority of people are not rabid side-pickers in this complex situation. A poll of those would probably be more alarming.

11% with an extreme view is not exactly insignificant.

"Expelling Jews". FFS.

@noblegiraffe Not everyone at protests or making pro Palestine comments on social media want Israel to be “wiped out” I myself have attended protests (I’m in a different country though) and donated to charities to help Gaza and I do not want to wipe anyone out. I do not want to watch this horror unfold without feeling like tried to do something in my own small way.

In fact this poll says that 11% of pro Palestinians support expelling Jews from the region. So you are talking about a minority and I would consider it an extreme view.

Antisemitism is obviously a very real thing, and blaming all Jews for what’s happening in Gaza is completely wrong. But Please don’t tar every one with the same brush.

yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48966-hamas-approval-at-11-among-those-who-sympathise-more-with-palestinians

Personally I do not demonize anyone who claims Israel has the right to exist.

Which is great. But the OP reports a tweet saying every single 'zio' should go to hell. They either mean Jew, or anyone who thinks Israel has the right to exist.

The notion that Israel is the only state to ever be called to account is quite ludicrous

I'm not making it.

However, how many states do you see weekly chants on the streets of London to wipe out? Not 'call to account', but wipe off the map?

Apart from anything else though it really shouldn't irk me by now - I'm always bewildered at how ingrained the notion that if any other group it wouldn't be tolerated.
You couldn't start conversations about other communities and not end up reported to the police.

Is it a case of repeating something enough times that eventually it will become true?

Personally I do not demonize anyone who claims Israel has the right to exist. I think it would be great if it could have existed without so much pain, destruction and suffering to the Palestinians. I would disagree that other brutal regimes are ignored, I've been to protests regarding women's/girls rights in Afghanistan, the Uighurs, ethnic cleansing in Sudan, Irish language rights (and I'm not a very 'active' person, so I'm sure there are loads that I don't know about going on). The notion that Israel is the only state to ever be called to account is quite ludicrous. I'm sure antisemitism is a motivator for some, in the same way that Islamophobia is a driver for some when they protest about immigration laws or human rights in Afghanistan, but I do believe a lot of people can't look at the scenes we are faced with right now in Gaza and not be shaken to the core.

I'm glad I'm coming across as reasonable as there is no tone in text and I genuinely am not being hostile in what I say. I see what you are saying about geographical boundaries being changed post WWII, but I don't see that as comparable to what has happened to the Palestinians. Those who had to flee have no right to return, and many are still living in refugee camps decades later, in poverty. Those who remained have been under a brutal occupation - and I think it's important to get the language right - it isn't merely a "new regime" - and have been 'imprisoned' by checkpoints, making movement extremely difficult. In order to 'move on' there has to be a sense of restorative justice being carried out - and that has been highlighted in NI. However there has never been a pause in the restrictions, so the oppression has not ended. Israel has said that even if there is a ceasefire, the war will certainly not be over. Firstly an acknowledgement has to be made as to the extent of the damage caused, reparations made and justice served. Sadly there appears to be no sign of that by the Israeli government on the horizon, it seems that the regime will ramp up rather than recede.

I suggested 'Netanyahu supporters' earlier. Perhaps you missed it.

As for the idea that there are many people on this thread who support him - you appear to be talking bollocks.

Who on this thread wants the destruction of Gaza?

I mean Noblegiraffe it’s one thing calling people antisemetic for apparently wanting the destruction of Israel in a hypothetical situation. However apparently there is nothing to describe people who support the actual destruction of Gaza and it’s people and the continued occupation and violet fragmentation of the West Bank. No of course no words for these people. Many of them are on this thread.

What do you call people who support what is happening in Gaza, Noblegiraffe?

you have often accused posters of being devoid of critical reasoning, however you cannot seem to even grasp that there is another side here

I'm staying pretty on topic where the OP was talking about 'fuck Zios' and we're discussing antizionism.

I am perfectly aware of Israel's actions. I don't condone them. What needs to be explained is why the response to Israel's actions is to demonise people who think Israel has the right to exist.

I am pointing out that other countries' barbaric regimes, invasion of other countries, land grabbing, or their creation causing the displacement and death of millions hasn't led to people similarly demonising people who think that country has a right to exist.

And when the people actively working to wipe that country off the map are massively antisemitic, one wonders if antisemitism is a motivator.

It should be also be noted that if you want a country to become more extreme in how it deals with defence issues, a massive terrorist attack on its citizens will do it, so you should really be hoping that Israel's neighbouring countries stop attacking it if you want the barbaric regime gone.

You also seem to be mixing me up with other people.

I understand your points and you’ve been clear and reasonable in the way you have phrased them.
Its worth pointing out that after the Second World War many National boundaries were changed and millions of people were displaced, made homeless or found themselves in the same home but in a new country , with a new regime in charge. I have spoken to people who say their grandparents still talk about the orchards, farms, bee hives they had to leave behind as the big powers carved up Europe between them.
There is pain and loss but ultimately they moved on and their children and grandchildren generally survived and thrived

I don’t entirely agree with your use of Northern Ireland as an analogy either . ( I do have a parent from Northern Ireland and am Irish Catholic) . Many/ most of The Protestants in Northern Ireland have lived there for hundreds of years - so yes I think it’s fair to think that most people ( not those who are immediately affected/ bereaved) need to accept they need to “move on” .
“Moving on” is not easy but it’s often the only hope for peace so I’m in favour of it in terms of Northern Ireland.
I thinking “moving on” is out of the question in Gaza and Israel for at least a generation. There has been too much pain. But hopefully in time it will be possible.
Ultimately I completely support the Palestinian right to a homeland AND the Israeli right to a homeland but BOTH sides need to compromise… and both need to “move on “ in time

@noblegiraffe you have often accused posters of being devoid of critical reasoning, however you cannot seem to even grasp that there is another side here, which was occupied and has suffered greatly as a result. I don't know why you keep trying to deflect by saying other countries also contravene laws, I suggest you start a thread about them. This thread is concerning the Israel/Palestine conflict, so it stands to reason that we will be discussing this. It wouldn't really be relevant to bring in China here (I think it's you that constantly complains that people are not protesting for the Ughurs?)
Democratic elections so far have not changed the policies, if anything they are becoming more extreme. The last time I checked the overwhelming majority of Israelis felt that the force deployed in Gaza was proportional, which is obviously very worrying. I must admit though I haven't checked very recently, so this might have significantly changed.

And would like for neighbouring countries to stop attacking Israel?

I didn't say or even indicate that it was all of them. Nor did I say I want it wiped off the map! I would like an end to Israel's barbaric, apartheid policies, I'd like the Palestinians to have the right to live in peace, and for Israel to abide by international laws and standards.

And who is going to change Israel's barbaric regime?

Democratic elections would be the best method...

Why is it that the aggressor is positioned as the victim here?

Yet there have been people working hard to wipe Israel off the map since the moment of its creation. It's not like there's only one country with a barbaric regime doing any attacking here. Are you saying they should all be wiped off the map? Or just that just for Israel?

have you missed the Jews calling for an annihilation of the Arabs? Death to their children? Wipe their memory out? Why is it that the aggressor is positioned as the victim here? Or is that OK because they want to self determine?

What, all of them? All Israelis say that? All Jews even, as you claim?

Or because a few extremists say these things, you want to wipe out a country of millions? Or what exactly?

And who is going to change Israel's barbaric regime? And what are the "normal circumstances?". The goal for them should be to start adhering to international laws and standards. To stop murdering people, stop the land grabbing, stop the wiping out and erasure of Palestinians.
@noblegiraffe have you missed the Jews calling for an annihilation of the Arabs? Death to their children? Wipe their memory out? Why is it that the aggressor is positioned as the victim here? Or is that OK because they want to self determine?

This is my view also. I haven't visited Israel for over 25 years because of the policy of allowing settlers on the West Bank. Nevertheless I am 100% Zionist.

Their existence is moot.

They are marching on the streets of London every weekend chanting from the river to the sea. They're in Leeds cheering for a one-state solution. They're on social media saying 'I'm not antisemitic, I'm antizionist'. They're pretty bloody noisy.

And I can imagine Jewish people wondering why when it comes to Israel, the only Jewish state in the world, the call is to wipe it off the map, in agreement with the people who are working towards that goal, like Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran. It seems like a fair question.

Yes, there are people saying Israel should not exist and there are people saying there should be no Palestinian state. There are extremist elements that are very active towards either the destruction of Israel or the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

These people are not new. They’ve been arguing the same perspective- where one people gets self-determination and a nation and the other gets to be ethnically cleansed from the region- since the 1920s. They haven’t just argued- they have committed terrorist acts, assassinations, all kinds of underhanded violence to push their viewpoint.

Their existence is moot. The fairest thing is both should have self determination. and a nation. I just don’t know how realistic this is because these elements on both sides have one shared goal in mind which is to derail any peace process that could lead to two states. As Hamas has executed pacifist Palestinians, so have a far right Jewish Israeli group assassinated their own PM for daring to agree to a two state solution and work for peace.

Regime change is the normal goal in those circumstances. Not wiping the country off the map.

As if Israel is the only country breaking international laws!

But there are people who are looking at what is going on in the West Bank and in Gaza and saying that Israel shouldn't exist as a country at all

Yes, because the treatment from the beginning has been utterly horrendous! Boundaries have always been exceeded, and international laws laughed at. So what does self determination mean then?

No, that's not self-determination, nor is it Zionism. Boundaries should be clear and respected. International law should be respected.

But there are people who are looking at what is going on in the West Bank and in Gaza and saying that Israel shouldn't exist as a country at all.

People aren't looking at what is going on in Ukraine and saying that Russia shouldn't exist because it is invading and land-grabbing in other countries. People don't say Pakistan shouldn't exist even though it was created with the upheaval and deaths of millions.

People wanting to make a special case and eradicate the only Jewish state in the world should think about why they are agreeing with antisemites like Hamas, Hezebollah, Houthis, Iran on this matter.