Disgusting comments like this normalised

Apologies noble, I missed your previous quote, I don't always get notifications. I don't require any "intellectual curiosity" regarding the matter. I can't speak on everyone's behalf, but I do know that some protestors have lived under occupation themselves, and others simply have a heart and want the slaughter of the Palestinians to stop. They want them to be free from an oppressive regime, it's common sense really.

Many many more Jews have not said this so what's your point and how does it relate to attacks on Jewish people and Jewish spaces made in the name of anti-Zionism?

I think it’s an extreme position to stand with an administration that have killed 10’s of thousands of men, women and children in Gaza, destroying infrastructure and ensured continued deaths from disease and hunger. That’s why even Israeli’s allies have gone from talking about the right of defence to war crimes.

This the reality of the situation.

@noblegiraffe - completely agree that synagogues should not be attacked. This is completely wrong.

I think some people are anti Zionist
some people are antisemitic
some people are pro human rights and justice and some people are just horrified by the scenes in front of them. It’s not a homogenous mass of people.

Lol I haven't refused to clarify anything . I thought my original post was clear. YES I MEAN THE WEST BANK SETTLEMENTS for those who have any shadow of doubts. I'm not sure what volumes this speaks? If I wanted to say I wanted to wipe Israel off the map or that the whole entity was illegal (as the above posters seem to have
hoped) I would just come out and say it. This is an anonymous forum, the worst that would happen is that my post would be deleted. There's absolutely no need for anyone not to say how they feel.

But, by standing with the Israel at this point in time, you are also standing alongside extremists.

Sorry, what the fuck is that based on? What extremists am I personally standing with?

The point there is if people are merely 'antizionist not antisemitic' why do synagogues keep being attacked?

Another good question is why do people attribute to Zionists all the old conspiracy theory tropes that used to be attributed to Jews?

I guess not.

But zionism does not equate to Judaism and many many Jews have said this.

Like I said I’ve attended protests here in Ireland not the UK and I don’t get a sense of that element. Support for Palestinians is rooted in something else here. But regardless, I want myself and especially my children to see that we didn’t just watch this unfold passively and that it is always worth speaking out against injustice even when it feels futile.

But, by standing with the Israel at this point in time, you are also standing alongside extremists.

@poshsnobtwit
It's a perfectly reasonable point to clarify. Your refusal to do speaks volumes.

So the West Bank settlements then, @poshsnobtwit?

@Ketzele I'm not tilting at windmills, and nor did I say anyone is supporting Netanyahu, I have been merely responding to posters questions. I didn't say we need to focus on "who started it" either, I'm saying (in response) that part of the peace process is contingent upon acknowledgement on harm (and it may be on both sides). But on that note, why should the Palestinians have to accept there is no right to return? It's always the Palestinians who are expected to accept [insert shitty conditions]. I have read israelilefty's posts and I agree they are very good.
@LordPercyPercy you are the second person who has asked me to clarify what I meant. I think illegally grabbed should clarify what I meant. I will hasten to add that we were repeatedly told throughout threads that it is antisemitic to ask a Jewish person their position on Israel, so I'm not sure why I'm being quizzed here.

???

Is that what you really think? If so please keep your anti semitic posts to yourself.

Any talk of Israel handing back land that they illegally grabbed is met with "but what about the jews, they deserve a state!"

Do you mean the occupied land in the West Bank (perfectly reasonable) or the entirety of the land in Israel (not so much, essentially demanding the destruction of the state of Israel)?

poshsnobtwit I think you're tilting at windmills on this thread - nobody is supporting Netanyahu and everyone wants peace. It's not a simple problem, there won't be a simple solution and I think you should reread the brilliant posts from noblegiraffe and israelilefty.

Any argument that focuses on 'who started it' and where the original sin was committed is doomed. Israel needs to rein in the WB settlers hard, Palestinians need to accept there will be no right to return to their former homes. I would rather like to return to the lovely Berlin home that belonged to my family in the 40s, but here we are.

And all of us (including me) need to get a lot wiser to the wider global interests at play.

I don't know much about Hamas to be honest, but I speak for myself and I know my intentions so no, it doesn't really bother me and I'm not inclined to interview people at protests to find out what they mean either. The area I'm in, it's 95% white people attending the protests.

Coming back to this, no intellectual curiosity about how a group of 95% white people have ended up out on the streets chanting a slogan used by Middle-Eastern terrorists to call for a country to be wiped off the map?

Sorry, I missed this. Re "moving on for those not directly affected by bereavement", the extensive studies in NI have shown that trans/intergenerational trauma is huge. Children today who were not even born in the Troubles are still being affected. Poverty, mental health issues, suicide, lack of education etc etc are attributed to the Troubles. Just because there was a formal peace process, does not mean that paramilitary activity has ceased. A massive part of the 'moving on' process involves prior recognition, apologies, restorative justice, compensation, and funding for ongoing help. Children in the OPT have not reached the 'post' phase of the trauma, as it's still ongoing. Moving on will not be happening any time soon, and especially not until they have achieved their basic human rights.

For someone who is so invested in defending Israel, you don't seem to listen to what they government are saying

You don't seem to be listening to what I'm saying.

I don't support Israel's actions. I don't support their government. I don't support what is happening in Gaza, I don't support what is happening in the West Bank.

Concern about antisemitism, about Hamas chants, about the demonisation of Zionists, about anti-western rhetoric is NOT defence of Israel's actions.

What a shallow analysis.

What do you think Hamas mean when they say it? Does it not feel wrong to be parroting slogans used by terrorists and justifying it with 'but I mean it a different way'? How are people supposed to tell which people are using it in the same way as Hamas and which people are not actually calling for Israel to be wiped off the map?

I don't know much about Hamas to be honest, but I speak for myself and I know my intentions so no, it doesn't really bother me and I'm not inclined to interview people at protests to find out what they mean either. The area I'm in, it's 95% white people attending the protests.

Do you understand that there are people who consider the entirety of Israel to be 'illegally grabbed land'? It is probably worth clarifying what land is being discussed

I don't feel any need at all to make any sort of clarification. Why would I?

Do you feel the same way about Pakistan, the deliberate creation of a Muslim homeland at around the same time as Israel, causing huge upheaval, death and destruction?

Pakistan is not a Muslim homeland, you cannot gain entry and/or citizenship on the basis of being a Muslim. It was the partition of Muslim/Hindu India and then Bangladesh, and yes a lot of blood was unfortunately spilled. It's not however comparable to Israel.

I mean, these things happened and we cannot turn back the clock. Note that I do not condone what is going on in the West Bank and a two state solution would hopefully end this

For someone who is so invested in defending Israel, you don't seem to listen to what they government are saying. A two state solution is not an option for them, moves were strategically made to prevent this being a possibility. And no, the clocks cannot be turned back. Fairly recently a representative of the Balfour Project said that in hindsight Balfour was wrong and Palestinians will be paying the price forever. However, when looking forward, acknowledgements, reparations, compensations need to be offered. You cannot abuse someone and then say 'just move on', it would be a travesty of justice.

I say 'from the river to sea...' and for me it means I want Palestinians to be free from occupation and oppression, basic human rights etc

What do you think Hamas mean when they say it? Does it not feel wrong to be parroting slogans used by terrorists and justifying it with 'but I mean it a different way'? How are people supposed to tell which people are using it in the same way as Hamas and which people are not actually calling for Israel to be wiped off the map?

Any talk of Israel handing back land that they illegally grabbed is met with "but what about the jews, they deserve a state!"

Do you understand that there are people who consider the entirety of Israel to be 'illegally grabbed land'? It is probably worth clarifying what land is being discussed.

I don't think anyone on this earth is entitled to something at the death and destruction of others

Do you feel the same way about Pakistan, the deliberate creation of a Muslim homeland at around the same time as Israel, causing huge upheaval, death and destruction?

I mean, these things happened and we cannot turn back the clock. Note that I do not condone what is going on in the West Bank and a two state solution would hopefully end this.

The government need to be pulled into line (by whom, I've no idea), follow international laws, award decent human rights to Palestinians.

Agree that countries should follow international laws and respect human rights. I'm not sure the anti-West coalition of countries that is rapidly building agree with that though, and we may in the future find ourselves being 'pulled into line' by them rather than vice versa. Israel and Ukraine are battlefields in that conflict, which certainly muddies the waters when it comes to international support.

Apologies, you said you've been referring to the Op's tweet. I say 'from the river to sea...' and for me it means I want Palestinians to be free from occupation and oppression, basic human rights etc. My primary concern is not upholding an oppressive regime. Does this mean I want to wipe all jews out? Certainly not. When people talk about solutions it's always expected that the Palestinians accept any crumbs they are thrown. Any talk of Israel handing back land that they illegally grabbed is met with "but what about the jews, they deserve a state!". I don't think anyone on this earth is entitled to something at the death and destruction of others, and this is what Israel was and is until the current day. The government need to be pulled into line (by whom, I've no idea), follow international laws, award decent human rights to Palestinians.

I didn't extrapolate that from the tweet, I extrapolated that from the actions of the people who are actively working to remove Israel from the map. You know, like, Iran and its proxies?

Out of interest, why do you think the rhetoric of people who are actively working to remove Israel from the map (from the river to the sea, describing Israel as the Zionist entity etc etc) is appearing in Western social media?

Which is great. But the OP reports a tweet saying every single 'zio' should go to hell. They either mean Jew, or anyone who thinks Israel has the right to exist

One tweet isn't exactly a scientific sample. People spew stuff all the time on the internet. I wouldn't extrapolate from this that people are "actively working to remove Israel from the map".
ETA: It should be of much greater concern how many tens of thousands of children are being murdered, maimed and psychologically tortured than rubbish people are writing on X.

Personally I'd feel quite uncomfortable attending a march where more than one in ten held extreme racist views and thought terrorist attacks are justified.