War Hezbollah and Israel

Theres this strange idea that you can’t do something unless the risk of collatorsl damage is zero. Hezbollah started bombing Israel on the 8th October before Israel had mounted a response to 7th October. They made it clear at that point they were a threat to the territorial integrity of Israel.

It’s so strange to me that it’s ok for Hamas to attack Israel but not for Israel to attack back and it’s ok for Hezbollah to attack Israel but not for Israel to attack back. You bomb someone then they kick you back and then you roll around on the floor crying “look what those bastards did”!!

I have my own views on the way Israel conducts itself sometimes. I think they are very often very wrong. But equally I think it’s neighbours are demented religious nutcases. Yaha Sinwar is definitely a total psychopath. I read a transcript of a podcast interview with an american based in the area who had been invited to attend a conference in Gaza (in more peaceful times) Hamas were discussing what to do with the Jews (their terminology not mine), whether they should all be killed (planned an actual genocide) or whether they should keep the ones with skills in healthcare and IT and make them work for them (slavery).

Israel doesn’t use it’s population as a human shield. The assassination of Hezbollah second in command today, I was on a Lebanese forum where people were wondering why the hell he chose to hold his meetings in a densely populated area, the consensus was because the civilians provided a shield, these people generally hate Israel but they also are able to see when they are being used (theres a joke going around that Iran will fight to the last Lebanese) . Sinwar has stated over and over that he doesn’t care how many Palestinians die, it’s extraordinary really.

I mean it’s mad. The middle east is utterly mad. Hezbollah have been fighting for Asad killing Syrians. The idea that it’s really mean to target Hezbollah members or that you can wage any kind of warfare without civilian casualties is utterly naive.

Show me one conflict where there weren’t civilian casualties, just one. Ideally no-one dies. But we are all here because Hamas decided to murder 1200 people and kidnap, rape and torture it’s way through bits of Israel and it was actually targeting civilians including children. On purpose. All of this stems from that one action. Thats terrorism. Accidentally harming civilians is not the same thing.

Well what a relief that the Lebanese 'government' (that has absolutely no record of corruption or terrorist activities itself, ever, honest guv) will look into how the enemy it's been bombing indiscriminately for the last 11 months performed a highly targeted attack on its illegal terrorists. Excuse me if I don't wait for anything remotely useful to come from it because some kind of 'social contract' has been broken. 60,000 Israelis haven't been home for almost a year due to the social contract of not bombing people without provocation has been broken. In comparison to c3000 terrorists being highly targeted in a communications-focus attack, I know I can rest easy at night.

Cue someone saying that Israel has been bombing Gaza indiscriminately for 11 months, etc. I'd like to remind you that Hamas broke a 'social contract' by invading Israel, massacring 1200 innocents and kidnapping 250 people as a declaration of war. Lebanon is allegedly not at war with Israel - so why the constant rocket attacks???

I think its pretty much the definition of a terrorist that they have not signed up to the 'social contract'.

It's good that the Lebanese government can help the terrorists Hezbollah so that they can carry on firing missiles into Israel? Bizarre

Not sure terrorists are worth a 'social contract' if fighting terrorists involved social contract then you'd always lose.

Absolutely agree @PeasfullPerson , boycott because of the social contract and laws being broken.

The issue was, as happens with breaking events a lot of disinformation was presented as fact. For example there was a picture of an exploded IPhone that was shared widely saying it exploded in Lebanon (the phone actually exploded in Egypt last year so unrelated). This caused a panic, exactly what the explosions were designed to do, except it was meant to be specifically for the Lebanese people, instead it has panicked a lot of people around the world.

The good thing is that some of the batteries were not in the devices when the signal was sent. So the Lebanese government have these and can carry out a full investigation.

I don’t think it’s worth ordinary citizens worrying about this. There are so many ways that somebody could hurt you if they really wanted to, what’s the benefit of living in fear. But if people boycott things as a means of protest, then I think that’s great.

I think the point is that Israel has acted outside of the law and outside of what some might consider the social contract we all have with each other. There are lines that shouldn’t be crossed, it only encourages others to do the same. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. That is not a sign of genius, it is a sign of absolute stupidity.

This guy, Sam Kiley states that any lithium battery could be turned into a bomb, but that is nonsense. Lithium ion or even LiPo batteries do not explode, they combust (deflagrate). They cannot transform their energy in a short enough time to cause an explosion. Their internal resistance prevents them from doing this.
Sure they will heat up, and left alone long enough they will burst into flames, but will not explode. Sam Kiley and Andrew Marr were scaremongering.
The pagers and walkie talkies almost certainly had their batteries doctored so that they were half battery, half explosive ( probably RDX or a derivative thereof)
Modern electronic equipment is built with the minimum of spare space within the casing. With tiny surface mount components and everything else squeezed in you'd be hard pressed to get a bumble bee inside a modern hand held device. The only place for explosive would be in the battery, which can take up to 25% of a devices volume. Doctored batteries and doctored firmware are probably how the Israelis did it. Supply chain question is very interesting. Who actually manufactured the pagers ? Made in Israel under license or manufacturers passing a few thousand over to be "adapted".? That's another interesting part of the story. Also worth noting that Hungary was the address of the shadow company. Orban and Netanyahu have an interesting relationship.

A person Andrew Marr was speaking to on an LBC news analysis about how this was all done said that any device with a lithium battery could potentially detonated.
(I have already posted it on other threads.)

The blowback is already happening, with many countries and ordinary citizens looking to change their electronic devices. Many posts today on social media about Chinese smartphones etc. Huawei will be particularly happy. The general feeling is that people do not want to use any Israeli and by extension American technology products as they're liable to be compromised. So not only was this move of no strategic benefit it will have a knock on effect on Western technology companies.

This was my first reaction when I heard about it. What precedent is being set who else will use this as a weapon it just makes everybody less safe. If there ever was an example of the end not justifying the means this is it.

Well if US supports Israel on this action, we should stay the hell away from it. It seems disgraceful to me, and apparently it is illegal. Let Starmer get his legal head around that. I absolutely do not want the UK to become a more dangerous place because politicians can't think straight, so let's hope he does.

Not that any of his predecessors, left or right, have much of a track record in that department.

Now we have precedent for targeting infrastructure and consumer electronics. Yay!

I know, it changes the rule book. But then what Hamas did in October last year also did. It's like all the rules are off now. All of it is extremely bad for all of humanity seeing what sort of describe technology is available. The polarised 'conversations' online are also worrying.

Not on this scale and so indiscriminately. Assassinations absolutely, we have companies we pay to keep our hands clean (Blackwater etc.)

Lots of people are celebrating not realising what this means for the whole world.
Then again a lot of people laughed when this happened: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/israel-appears-confirm-cyberattack-iran-nuclear-facility

Now we have precedent for targeting infrastructure and consumer electronics. Yay!

Has any other country ever done something like this?

The latest blasts seem to indicate that it has something to do with devices that use batteries.
It is terrorism, though it will not be condemned as such.
What if a person carrying a device had been on a plane when it exploded? I hope commercial airlines and national agencies are investigating this urgently.
The rules of war have just been broken again and we now have a new method of warfare that can be used by any country or non state actor.

Alex Crawford from Sky News on Twitter says these new explosions seem to involve Hezbollah 2 way radios...

Alex Crawford

@AlexCrawfordSky
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1m

There are reports coming in of replica explosions involving two-way radios in other parts of Lebanon eg Saida and Nabatieh (both south)

Sky news are reporting that there have just been 2 more blasts in Beirut which they think are more communication devices... Will try to find a source.

Israel specifically targeted a known set of devices which had reportedly been handed out by Hezbollah to their followers to coordinate their attacks. Very few of those devices will have been in “innocent” hands. Hezbollah have been firing missiles indiscriminately into Israel for months, and have as a stated aim the destruction of Israel. I would much rather Israel were this deliberate and focussed in who they targeted, and although two children is too many it is a lot fewer civilian casualties than if Israel had fired rockets into civilian areas to take out Hezbollah fighters. Would you have preferred that? It is a new type of lunacy to castigate Israel for any approach it takes to defend itself. Hezbollah aren’t going to stand in uniforms with guns identifying themselves to Israel so that laws of combat can be adhered to.

It is horrific to deliberately detonate devices in this manner, when anyone could have been holding them or in possession of them. To intentionally blind and maim people like this shows a real level of cruelty and disregard for human life.

💯

It is terror.

I doubt it. Unlikely I would have thought.