"If its true that more than 100 women and children died", then "Israel violated International Law" during hostage rescue, says former executive director of Human Rights Watch

Also this.

It’s not a long thread.

People so quick to dispute the Israeli claim that under 100 were killed, and only Hamas and armed civilians, yet happily let past the oft-repeated Hamas claim that Israel murdered 274 civilians, no Hamas, and Hamas didn't kill anyone.

This comment?
I already responded to this point you made by saying that have only seen a ( non Israeli) claim that of 274 Palestinians killed, 121 were women and children. This means the remainder could be Hamas and armed civilians.

I wondered if you believed the Israeli claim? I too could put my head in my hands.

Out of interest, do you happen to believe what the IDF said, that only 104 Palestinians were killed, all of who were Hamas fighters or armed civilians?

🤦‍♀️ I refer you to my previous comments.

It’s not a case of the IDF going in and just shooting everything and then leaving. They had people shooting at them too. Unfortunately civilians will have been caught in the crossfire

Just to be clear. It wasn’t just shooting - air strikes were launched.

It’s as if the civilians who got killed in this hostage rescue aren’t real people because they aren’t Israelis! They are just numbers!

I suppose people find it hard to believe the IDF because their response since 7th October has resulted in them killing people who are clearly nothing to do with Hamas and unnecessarily decimating vast parts of Gaza, including hospitals and schools, while spewing genocidal nonsense and being nowhere near achieving their stated aim of the total destruction of Hamas. We have also been encouraged by Israeli propaganda to believe all these deaths are necessary and despite reports that say otherwise, the people in Gaza have access to enough food. And now, we (the public) are told that our empathy is helping Hamas!

So in the context of the Israeli governments out of proportion response, their genocidal comments, reckless disregard for Palestinian lives, their incompetence and desire to control the narrative by trying to shut down support for innocent people in Gaza, which has included trying to label people (more lies!) in this country as antisemitic, terrorist supporters or Pro Hamas. Why on earth would we believe them!

The Israeli government and IDF have lost all credibility! Their words are no more trustworthy than Hamas.

The point here is that even if you think this is not a neutral enough source, even this non- neutral source is not saying that all those killed ( in the numbers they assert) were civilians. That allows for the fact that Hamas fighters would have been killed too.

I was answering Noble Giraffe’s previous post about that.

The IDF itself does not seem to be a neutral source, in my opinion. The IDF claimed, according to an article posted in another thread which gave an account of the rescue operation, that only 104 were killed and all of those were Hamas fighters or armed civilians.

This is clearly not possible given the massive air and sea and land bombing operation the IDF described which they carried out in a densely populated area.

Why did the IDF say this?

@ScrollingLeaves this is the source that calls the IDF the "Israeli Occupation Force". It is not a neutral source.

This is the account I am aware of, which as you see does not assert that all of those killed or wounded were Palestinian civilians.

GENEVA (14 June 2024) – UN human rights experts today strongly condemned the umpteenth massacre by Israeli forces in Gaza during a hostage rescue operation in Nuseirat Refugee Camp, which killed at least 274 Palestinians, including 64 children and 57 women, and injured nearly 700*

Out of interest, do you happen to believe what the IDF said, that only 104 Palestinians were killed, all of who were Hamas fighters or armed civilians?

Ignoring the evidence, and reports you may disbelieve, do you even think this IDF reckoning of the casualties of this operation would be hypothetically possible given the bombing/missile shooting of the crowded day-time market place, and the bombing/missile shooting of numerous apartment buildings, coming from the sea to the west and from the east?

If all the human rights organisations oppose what a state is doing, maybe - just maybe - the problem is the state going on a mad genocidal rampage, instead of a conspiracy theory?

You might not like Al Jazeera but you can check out these images and verify them yourselves if you want to.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza

WHO assessment of Al-Shifa hospital on the 5th of April.

Gaza: ‘Systematic dismantling of healthcare must end’ says WHO

‘That’s the assessment following a WHO-led multi-agency mission to Al-Shifa Hospital in northern Gaza on 5 April which examined the extent of destruction following a weeks-long Israeli offensive aimed at rooting out militant forces who were allegedly operating inside.
The highly complex mission was conducted in collaboration with the acting Hospital Director.’

‘Prior to the mission, WHO’s efforts to reach the hospital to evacuate patients and staff and conduct an assessment, were denied, delayed or impeded six times between 25 March and 1 April.’

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148316

And this, satellite imagery shows over 50% of cropland in Gaza has been damaged.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/more-than-half-of-cropland-in-gaza-is-damaged-un-says/

As there are no independent observers on the ground it is easy to quarrel over numbers.

While not related to this one specific event, but the Israeli response as a whole, I hope this information is less debatable.

https://unitar.org/about/news-stories/press/new-satellite-imagery-analysis-reveals-30-gaza-strip-structures-damaged

People so quick to dispute the Israeli claim that under 100 were killed, and only Hamas and armed civilians, yet happily let past the oft-repeated Hamas claim that Israel murdered 274 civilians, no Hamas, and Hamas didn't kill anyone.

Also do innocent civilians shoot back at rescuers of hostages. Do innocent civilians fire RPGs. Some of those would be in the hamas figures of who died or do Israeli rescue forces guns not kill hamas then since they never appear to die.

Also a hamas fired rocket powered grenade hitting a populated building. I mean it's pretty obvious they don't care for their women and children. No need for them to do that. The cynical way they use death to further their heinous aims.

"If" ......

Also the soldiers in the clip are clearly in uniform. It seems they wanted to slip away quietly and did so with one rescue. A simultaneous rescue received heavy fire so they have to fire back or die.

I think it’s quite complicated to a)clarify deaths b)attribute deaths. There are reports that Hamas were using RPG’s and grenades, one of those hits a building in a crowded area and it’s a disaster for anyone in the vicinity.

It’s not a case of the IDF going in and just shooting everything and then leaving. They had people shooting at them too. Unfortunately civilians will have been caught in the crossfire.

I don’t believe only armed civilians were killed, equally I wouldn’t be 100% sure that those who were killed were solely killed by IDF.

Fog of war and all that.

Also israel are clear that only Hamas and armed civilians were killed so it’s not an issue anyway.

They are lying.
Bare faced liars on this.

That's because 75% of the population of Gaza are either children (50%) or women (25%).

The ones jumping all over Liraz Assulin were men. They'll all be innocent civilian men though