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Conflict in the Middle East
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CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 20:46

Ok so Gaza is not a country is not a country and is also not in Israel.

I was simply responding to @FrippEnos who claimed that the difference between China's treatment of Uighur people and Israel attacking Gaza was that China wasn't attacking people that weren't in its country. I thought the distinction did not make the moral difference that was implied and put China in a position of moral superiority above Israel as China is explicitly being genocidal by sending its own citizens to concentration camps based on religion.

So Gaza is not in Israel. So my point that these two are both acts going on within their own country doesn't stand.

However my point does stand that China's treatment of its own people is morally reprehensible but the reason the Maldives is targeting Israel but not China, in my opinion is because of a racism against Jewish people that is more acceptable internationally than against any other group.

Countries express their condemnation against Israel more often because of what is called antisemitism which I would rebrand Judaiophobia. We need the "phobia" in the name, because it really is international hatred.

The number of protests about what is going on in Sudan, or other places where large numbers of people are being slaughtered is nowhere near as high as those where people can find Jews to blame. The reason in my opinion is racism.

anotherlevel · 03/06/2024 20:45

@CakeTastesBetterAsBatter @BibiSuzanne has answered you on many occasions but you are just refusing to read it for some odd reason and preferring to argue. So I've taken the liberty of asking google on your behalf and this is what they have to say.

The Maldives bans Israeli passport holders
BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:41

I'm just educating you.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:41

And I did not say you were lying.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:40

I'm not discussing the Congo or Taiwan. What have they got to go with this? And no Gaza is not in Israel.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:39

I have answered you. Gaza is not in Israel. It is in fucking limbo because although Israel apparently left in 2005 it still controls Gaza ILLEGALLY. What part of that have you not understood? I have stated that quite clearly.

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 20:38

Mellowdramadrama · 03/06/2024 20:32

@CakeTastesBetterAsBatter Gaza, as you well know is occupied Palestinian territory.

What is all this rubbish about "as you well know?"

Are you incapable of letting it into your consideration that someone might not know the country status of Gaza?

Israel is a country. Gaza isn't. So it stands to reason that Gaza is in the country Israel as I thought that's where the borders were.

I mean just because my subtle knowledge of a border thousands and thousands of miles away is shakey, does that mean I'm lying?

You tell me where the borders of the people's republic of Congo are or is Taiwan a country?
Is someone asking if Taiwan is a country goading or anything else?

Have you considered that these contentious regions have definitions of where their borders are that people thousands of miles away aren't 100.% clear on?

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 20:35

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:31

No bloody nudge nudge wink wink going on here . It is not in Israel. It is illlegally occupied by Israel even though they claimed to have left it in 2005.
And yes you are dancing around the facts. Because the facts don't suit your rhetoric.

Again, what are you talking about? Dancing around what? I am not dancing I am asking a clear basic question.

So what is the status of Gaza?

It is not in Israel but it is also not a country?

Assuming over and over again that someone is thinking something they're not saying doesn't clarify or do anything else to edify your argument.

Just directly answering a question does.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:33

Oh she knows that very well.

Mellowdramadrama · 03/06/2024 20:32

@CakeTastesBetterAsBatter Gaza, as you well know is occupied Palestinian territory.

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 20:31

The amount of times people make comments like "ironic" or random single words without actually stating clearly, simply and directly what they mean is a sign of how little people really want to engage in an actual conversation.

Clear, direct, simple communication and terminology is what leads to real conversations on topics rather than making half statements and vague declarations that could be taken to mean anything.

A sign of a weak argument is that someone is actually unwilling to make it.

If you have an argument or a point then it should still stand when you state it clearly and unambiguously and explain it to anyone that asks for clarification.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:31

No bloody nudge nudge wink wink going on here . It is not in Israel. It is illlegally occupied by Israel even though they claimed to have left it in 2005.
And yes you are dancing around the facts. Because the facts don't suit your rhetoric.

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 20:27

@BibiSuzanne what are you talking about?
What country is Gaza in?
What is all this pretended common knowledge? Just say directly what you mean.

As far as I know, Gaza is in Israel.
If you actually have a correction then state it directly and clearly don't pretend I mean something I don't or there's some big secret that we're all dancing around.

Failing to states something and going nudge nudge wink wink doesn't make a point. It just obscures it by pretending to everyone we all have some unwritten knowledge while actually failing to tell anyone anything and obscuring the problem by not stating clearly what you mean.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:15

@CakeTastesBetterAsBatter Stop goading. You know what you are saying.

TakeMe2Insanity · 03/06/2024 20:14

Scirocco · 03/06/2024 06:13

As someone who has lost loved ones in Gaza, this is an utterly horrible thing to say.

My friends and colleagues did not "volunteer" to die. Many of them were bravely working in hospitals and camps for displaced people, to try to save lives.

Their families did not "volunteer" to die. Nor did their children volunteer to be injured and scarred for life.

"Ordinary Palestinians" can't do anything to stop this. They can't "hand over Hamas" - they don't even have enough food to save their children from malnutrition, let alone the resources to stage a coup in the middle of a warzone. They can't free hostages themselves for the same reason.

It has already been made clear on multiple occasions by the Israeli government that the return of the hostages would not be sufficient to end the assault on Gaza. That nothing short of "total victory" will suffice.

If anyone started saying that the deaths of innocent Israeli citizens were "voluntary" due to the actions of a government and military over which they have no authority, that person would rightfully be condemned and corrected for saying something so horrendous about the deaths of innocent people, especially when people directly affected by loss would be able to read what was written. The same applies to innocent Palestinians and others risking their lives and dying in Gaza. The same consideration should be given to people with loved ones in Gaza as to people with loved ones in Israel.

Well said.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 20:14

Gaza is illegally controlled by Israel. It is not part of Israel. Never has been. Yes I would be happy for Gaza to control everything you say but as part of a Palestinian state. I say this as a Palestinian. Not an Arab. Not a Muslim. But a Palestinian who knows exactly how and why we got to this point.

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 20:13

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 19:51

Gaza is NOT in Israel

Which country is it in?

AhNowTed · 03/06/2024 20:11

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 19:51

Gaza is NOT in Israel

So if Gaza is not in Israel, you'd be happy for Gaza to control its own imports, exports, travel, airspace, airport, and fishing zones?

If the answer is no, you've no right to pretend that Gaza is not controlled by Israel.

ConnieCounter · 03/06/2024 20:00

keenforhelp · 03/06/2024 19:33

YOU used the simile - I merely explained that dogs are treated well in the UK and Ireland. You DO live in Ireland right? An animal loving place?

Odd to use this simile if you meant something completely the opposite. That cliche may have been true once - not anymore.

OK that's too ridiculous for words. Everything in my previous post still stands.

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 19:54

@FrippEnos not from you, I mean from The Maldives. A country going to war (with a part of itself) in repsonse to an attack is a bit different to a country sending a portion of citizens based on their religion to concentration camps and sterilising them.

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 19:52

And that is the crux of the problem!

BibiSuzanne · 03/06/2024 19:51

Gaza is NOT in Israel

CakeTastesBetterAsBatter · 03/06/2024 19:50

Are any of those countries targeting Muslim people in another state/country?

@FrippEnos
Gaza is in Israel.

This is basic Judaiphobia.

HelenHen · 03/06/2024 19:45

keenforhelp · 03/06/2024 19:27

@HelenHen no problem at all.

I would love to move to Ireland actually as I found it such a friendly, welcoming place (Dublin). Fresh air, lovely people, great pubs and people who loved to chat to me about my background and culture. And I have said it before but James Joyce is literally my literary hero!

I never quite made it through Ulysses, but congrats if you did 😆

I think a lot of this gets lost in debate. Who knows, maybe I've even met you and enjoyed your company in Dublin, and we never mentioned Palestine once 😆

Sadly I've been away for a while, but I'd go back in a heartbeat if circumstances allowed.

TomeTome · 03/06/2024 19:45

When South Africa operated their apartheid regime, much of the world supported the sanctions in the hopes they would find a better way. I can’t see this is very different. The Maldives have not attacked Israel with force all they have said is they won’t be welcoming Israelis in their country until the brutality stops. I admire their actions, putting your hand up for what you believe is hard especially when you rely so heavily on the tourist trade. I’d support our government making some firm move to show disgust at the slaughter. Unlike previous posters that is the common response to what the IDF are doing among people I have spoken to.