Petition for the United Kingdom to recognise the state of Palestine

That’s a bit defeatist

If you're suggesting that means he's not in favour of recognising a Palestinian State at a time that's appropriate within the context of a peace process, then that definitely doesn't follow!

And, yes, it's not appropriate to bring his wife into this.

And? What has that got to do with his wife?

I note that Keir has praised Israel's approach to Gaza...

I'm sure plenty of people saw your awful post before it got deleted, yes.

The SNP tried to bring in a vote on an immediate ceasefire which Starmer managed to circumvent, arguably to prevent internal Labour dissent/ rebellion being displayed.

Hopefully this petition will see a debate on this in the commons at least. Then, it will be interesting going forward to see how how Labour, Green, SNP and LD MPs vote on ME issues.

I have reservations- but not so sure as you are that this election will have no impact on future policy in ME. It will depend on how Labour use their whip and allow free votes.

With all due respect to Anas Sarwar, he's an MSP and foreign policy is out of his remit. Scottish Labour is not independent of the Parliamentary Labour Party's NEC.

They will have the policy Starmer's Labour decrees which was set out by Wayne David, Labour’s Shadow Middle East minister:

"We will recognise the state of Palestine at a point which will help the peace process once negotiations between Israel and Palestine and the others are taking place.

It’s not about the Labour government going, ‘right we recognise Palestine’, big deal!

We want to see a state of Palestine being established but there is not a state of Palestine now.”

He added a two State Solution has to be mutually agreeable to Israel otherwise you don't have a basis for a workable peace process or long term solution.

At the end of the day, it's the same position as that of the Conservatives - agreement in principle with conditions attached.

As for Flynn, as I said earlier SNP is projected to go from 43 MPs to.....16. Westminster SNP will be more irrelevant - not more relevant - should that prediction come to pass.

@Polka83 I was responding to the hugely antisemitic comment by @youngones1 which thankfully has now been deleted

in that it's fine to criticise starmer but not OK to make antisemitic comments and dragging his wife into it

It’s not an unusual view- but seems to have come as a shock for you? @therealcookiemonster

”Now a new YouGov survey, conducted on 29 February-1 March, with the vast majority of responses having been gathered prior to the results of the by-election becoming known, shows that only 14% of Britons say Keir Starmer has handled Labour’s response well”

“Starmer is seen as having managed the issue poorly by those on all sides of the conflict: 67% of those who sympathise primarily with the Palestinians say so, as do 69% of those who sympathise most with the Israelis, and 53% of those who sympathise with both sides equally.”

Are you actually aware of how poorly we feel our politicians are handling this?

People across the political spectrum want an IMMEDIATE ceasefire.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48796-keir-starmer-has-handled-labours-response-on-gaza-badly-say-public-and-labour-voters#:~:text=Just%2014%25%20of%20Britons%20%2D%20and,party's%20policy%20on%20Gaza%20well&text=Those%20who%20voted%20for%20Labour,he%20has%20handled%20it%20poorly.

https://www.map.org.uk/news/archive/post/1585-new-poll-shows-sustained-british-public-support-for-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza-and-the-suspension-of-uk-arms-sales-to-israel

Well we’re clearly talking about opinions, matters of policy, morality etc not matters of fact.

There has to be a reason why generations of people have not been able to agree a way of dealing with the problems in the Middle East. The most likely explanation is not that one side have all the right opinions and the other is ‘uneducated’.

@youngones1 I think starmer's approach to the current conflict has been abyssmal

but what the actual fuck?

Starmer is unlikely to be sympathetic, his wife is Jewish.

Those Jews, influencing our politicians.

If a future Lib Dem leader were to have a Jewish spouse, or heaven forbid be Jewish themselves, would you still be constantly telling people to vote for them?

that's nice

I hope you feel that way about flat earthers, anti vaxxers and holocaust deniers

Not really. A person may be well-informed but use the information to reach a different conclusion. Sometimes even an eccentric conclusion. It doesn’t mean they are ignorant.

It’s much easier to ignore someone if you tell yourself they are poorly-informed but it’s often dishonest. For example, I know several people who voted for brexit and were called stupid, ignorant or gullible. In fact, they had well-founded reasons for their decision and were voting in their own interests. I was a remainer myself but I hate it when people assume that, armed with the right information, all reasonable people will have the same opinions (and therefore people without the right opinions are always either ill-informed or not reasonable).

There are plenty of Jewish people absolutely horrified by the unfolding atrocities. There are also plenty who are not zionists.

It’s good that Flynn has similar views to the SNP leader Swinney then.

Even Labour’s Scottish leader supports Palestinian state as a right, and “not a gift of a neighbour.”

Denmark and, IIRC, Australia have recently voted to reject recognition of a Palestinian State arguing it is not conducive to a peace process at this time.

UK will do the same.

Swinney is an MSP who should concentrate on devolved Scottish affairs as foreign policy is outside of his remit as First Minister. If Flynn (MP) wants to try that as SNP Commons Leader, he can try.

That'll depend on how many seats SNP loses. Currently projected to drop from current total of 43 seats to 16!

No it won’t be deleted:

“My petition got 100,000 signatures before the site closed. Will it get debated?
The current Petitions Committee (the group of MPs who decide which petitions are debated) will no longer exist when Parliament is dissolved. Decisions about whether to debate any petitions from the current Parliament will be the responsibility of the new Petitions Committee. This has generally happened after previous elections, but would be up to the new Committee.”

The total number who have signed is now nearing 270,000.
Can’t see how any future petitions committee can ignore, and more immediately- it’s having an impact on upcoming elections.

”SNP’s new leader John Swinney has warned that he’d force a vote on recognition in the Commons after the election if the main parties refused to recognise a state immediately.”

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/labour-will-recognise-palestine-says-partys-deputy-leader/

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

One reason why some people don't campaign for Hamas to fight according to international law is they think it doesn't apply to terrorist groups. Shows a lack of knowledge.

Another might be they think there's no point as Hamas will ignore it. BUT there is definitely value in the general public demonstrating far more vocally against Hamas than we're seeing. It sends a clear message to Hamas that their main method of communication - terrorist violence - isn't working on them, that they view Hamas as a clear danger to Palestinians as well as to Israelis and that they should cease their fire.

Oh, and they should release all hostages without harming them. Too late now for public demonstrations of that.

I'm sure there may be other reasons in the potential mix, but it's 11pm and I'm getting ready for bed! 🤣

actually depending on the opinion, it does

It's pointless as all petitions are being deleted on Thursday and won't be re-stated after the election, they have to be started from scratch once a new government is formed.

Lots of sloganeering here.

Interesting use of ‘Zionist’ as a pejorative term. Note how zionism, which is the belief that Jews should have a homeland, is being rebranded as something evil.

Also the use of the buzzword ‘colonialism’. All you have to do is use the right buzzwords and you can very quickly tap into cultural antipathy towards colonialism and use it against Israel. It is clearly not a colonial state. What is it a colony of? It consists in large part of people who were refugees, many from the Middle East.

“Educate yourself” has to be the most patronising phrase ever invented.

Just because someone has an opinion you don’t like, it doesn’t mean they are ignorant.

The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols form the core of international humanitarian law (IHL).

The ICRC asserts explicitly that "IHL applies both to armed forces and to non-State armed groups. Acts of terrorism in other situations may be subject to other bodies of law, in particular domestic criminal law".

So, yes, non-State terrorist groups are bound by IHL in addition to other instruments of law of which domestic criminal law is just one example.