Tel Aviv under attack from at least eight rockets fired from Rafah in Gaza

@Humdingerydoo In my opinion and probably the eyes of many people in Gaza, and actually all over the world, it makes Netanyahu, who is prolonging the war for partly political purposes, a terrorist.

The people in Gaza and Hamas have to negotiate with a man, government, state, who is responsible for the destruction of their homes and the death of their friends and families.

They also have to set their anger and their fear aside. May you all find the strength to do this, because the only other real option, is much worse for everyone.

Is the resistance they're referring to when chanting that phrase justified? No.

Let me try that again.

Is any resistance not justified?

Or are you going to do that thing where you pretend the phrase is actually referring to something else?

Probably the same thing as it makes all the other people I mentioned.

October 7th? No, it wasn't justified.

My question was what does this make Netanyahu.

@Humdingerydoo

"And all the marchers and posters on here who claim "resistance is justified"? "

Is it not justified?

I am certain it will be unpalatable for both sides and that you are right this is the only way to achieve peace. This is what takes real strength and this is what is needed.

Should we remind ourselves what happened when Israel negotiated with Hamas in 2011? October 7th was a direct result of those negotiations. I think people would do well to stop ignoring that.

Israel and its supporters = offended by and scared of everything

Also Israel and its supporters = ashamed of nothing

Absolutely, thank you.

And Menachem Begin, who became Prime Minister of Israel.

There are lots of examples of terrorists making the move to the negotiating table and bringing the men of violence with them. You make peace by dialogue with your enemies, not in the echo chambers of those who agree with you. You negotiate with their leaders in the hope that they can bring their followers with them. There have to be meaningful concessions for this to happen.This is all very unpalatable but it’s realpolitik, I’m afraid.

If Israel doesn’t seize the opportunity to do a deal, you don’t need a crystal ball to see the conflict will go on for 10 or more years with ethnic cleansing and famine in Gaza and the inevitable demise of those surviving hostages followed by increasing isolation of Israel as it says goodbye forever to the moral high ground to become a pariah state.

Whatever about McGuiness, don’t forget Arlene Foster and other unionists. At Protestant, the age of 8 she saw her father crawling on his hands and knees covered in blood after being shot by the IRA. The family has to leave their home and school. Her school bus was later blown up when she was a teenager. . But she sat down at that the table with McGuinesss as first minister because that’s the ugly kind of thing that is necessary to give the next generation a peaceful future.

And what does that make all the people using force to occupy buildings? And all the marchers and posters on here who claim "resistance is justified"? "Globalise the intifada!".

Not sure this is necessarily a path you want to be going down.

If we are to take this Cambridge dictionary definition of a terrorist, and accept that Netanyahu is using the war for political purposes, then what does that make him?

someone who uses violent action, or threats of violent action, for politicalpurposes:

No I'm not being funny about anything, honestly.

But simple black and white, good and bad characterizations are unhelpful and inadequate, when we are talking about thousands of innocent lives.

It's not that simple.

Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group. But does that make Israel the good guys. No of course not.

And simply saying "terrorist", as a means to shout down all reasonable opposition to what is happening in Gaza is a tragedy.

And before any pile on - yes Oct 7th was an atrocity.

But so is the killing of Palestinians every day in the West Bank, prior to Oct 7th, and in the West Bank and Gaza since.

Ah ok. My apologies. Thought you were trying to be funny about Israel.

If you're happy to live in a world where Sinwar and his likes are a head of state then good luck to you. I thought we could all agree Hamas were scum of the earth, but I guess maybe not?

No substance?

Nelson Mandela
Martin McGuinness (albeit Deputy)

Nice little soundbite. Shame there's no actual substance behind what you're saying. Don't let that stop you from saying something that sounds cool though.

Shhh, you'll be accused of Whataboutery and deflection.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

And yesterday's terrorists can, and have become tomorrow's heads of state.

"I am not interested in your whataboutery accusations. You have a neat handle to use, to deflect from
whatishappening at the hands of the IDF and this government."

Oh, believe me, I'm well aware you're not interested! 🤣

However, that doesn't actually change anything as your very quick reaction was to deflect AWAY from Hamas' status as a terrorist organisation.

It also means you're not addressing the refutation of the original argument in your own responses.

Whataboutery IS a logical fallacy and that means an error in reasoning and logic. So no, my being very aware of YOUR own behaviour, i.e., Whataboutery, is not a "neat handle" or s deflection tactic. I directly AND very clearly refuted the poster in question's use of the aforementioned terrorist cliché.

So, I think we can all take it from your response here is you don't think Hamas was a terrorist organisation BEFORE 7th October 2023.

Oofft.....

The speed AND willingness to completely deflect away from Hamas as a terrorist organisation is suspect sneaking regarder behaviour.

At this point, I will once again remind people that it IS illegal to express support for terrorist groups.

Even if you do so as covertly as you can.

Poor show.

I know that the IDF inflicted misery and terror on Palestinians, including killing them, before Oct 7 and that the power was in their hands.

I am not interested in your whataboutery accusations. You have a neat handle to use, to deflect from
whatishappening at the hands of the IDF and this government.

Since Oct 7 there has been ample revenge. Whatever evil Hamas did Oct 7, and evil and mad they were imo, the IDF has multiplied many times over by their own powerful methods of modern weaponery.

Before this war I had no idea what some in Israel were getting up to against Palestinians. I generally trusted the Israeli government. No more. I think some of the characters like Smotrich, Ben-Givr, are cheering on thugs and killers themselves.