New Hamas video of hostages

Until then, Israel are in an impossible situation. Yes, everyone wants a ceasefire, but where does that leave them?

It leaves them in a situation where they and Palestine have to sit down, make concessions and make peace. The time to stop caring about winning and revenge was a many 1000s of innocent lives ago For the safety and security of both Israelis and Palestinians. I understand that the Israeli government does not want a 2 state solution but if Israel truly want long term peace there is no other solution. Occupation hasn't worked, controlling the borders hasn't worked, killing 10s of 1000s of people hasn't worked, having 700,000 settlers hasn't worked. None of what they have done has 'protected their existence'. It has just led to bloodshed and this time around isolation and disdain.

A ceasefire and a two state solution is in everyone's best interests. The last temporary ceasefire was the most successful Israel have been at getting hostages home safe. It's time to start looking forward, to start looking towards peace and security for everybody. There is no peace to be found for Israelis or Palestinians in occupation and collective punishment.

Scirocco if someone is marching in London as they are doing most weekends, carrying placards that are antisemitic and calling for the abolishment of the state of Israel, that person is promoting terrorism.

@MrsAllsorts so, are you retracting your assertion that we're 'pro-terrorist' if we have those concerns? Because that is a very serious allegation to make.

'Gazans haven't been allowed an election since 2006' and why is that, do you think?
It's because after they elected Hamas ordinary civilians have had to toe the line behind Hamas. Israel is a democracy who have regular elections. I do not support the current Israeli government but at least Israelis of all denominations and religions have a voice. Civilians in Gaza do not have and while Hamas rules Gaza there is no likelihood of that changing.

@Sixpence39 this has and is being extensively discussed on other threads in this section. It's okay to discuss the plight of teen and young women hostages also.

There are tactics used which are resulting in unnecessary civilian casualties and particularly child casualties.

The use of large 'dumb bombs' with large impact areas, causing devastation significantly beyond the initial target.

"Daddy's Home". Identify a target, track him home, blow up his house (and surrounding area, potentially).

Snipers targeting children and the elderly, who are clearly presenting no threat.

The withholding of aid and/or the lack of facilitation of aid disproportionately affects children and the vulnerable. A physically capable man will survive and function without food far longer than a child, who has limited physiological reserve and limited ability to seek alternative sources of food if their main sources are removed.

The destruction of healthcare services means children and the vulnerable are again disproportionately affected. Children are more likely than adult men to die in the absence of medical services.

It is within the capabilities of some of the leading military and intelligence bodies of the modern world, to carry out precise strikes (we've seen it recently), to 'remove' individuals with relatively few casualties, etc. Even if a full-scale assault were deemed necessary, this should have been done without the repeated violations of international law that we've seen.

@AdamRyan Thank you for your tempered and rational response to my question

I'm not an expert in international law so had no idea that there would be a legal assumption that all dead were classed as civilians. Good to know, though

If the majority do not support Hamas as you claim, I suggest they take it up with Hamas then, because that is where the blame lies, in particular, using their own citizens as human shields. Hamas need to leave Israel alone and learn to live in peace.

And here is a video in which a son of Hamas absolutely exposes Hamas and their intention to wipe out the Jews. It’s not as if Hamas have made it a secret, and that they see their Palestinian human shields as ‘martyrs’.

deaths in these numbers with half being children is indefensible

Perhaps swap "indefensible" for "unavoidable"? Given the population density, and Hamas's tactics?

Unless someone can explain a practical solution that safeguards Israel without harming anyone in Gaza except very obvious* Hamas agents?

*subject to debate

It's insulting to suggest that not wanting 35000 death in 6 months with 15000 being small children and baby's is antisemitic. People are tired of it tbh. I understand some Jewish people are getting genuine antisemitism from this, after all they cannot change the deeds and decisions of the isreali government but you cannot defend the indefensible and deaths in these numbers with half being children is indefensible.

Isrealli citizens have my sympathy hamas are terrorists there's no doubt about that but laying seige to a nation and the way in which this war is being conducted is not acceptable. Other country's are having to air drop essential human needs because its not being allowed by land....

The battle to end hamas is understandable the lack of preservation of lives is not.

People against the way this war is being waged do not deserve to be labelled antisemitic and using it to defend Isrealli government decisions, is taking away its true meaning. People are so outraged by the sheer loss of human life they are now willing to be labeled. Its a real shame the word is being used wrongly because it is a subject that should remain at the top of the agenda to ensure the safety of jewish people all over the world.

Ideally, one day:
Terrorism will never happen
Wars will never happen

Not sure what the chances of that are... so, assuming humanity does not change its essential stupidity, maybe wars will be fought differently.

Wouldn't it be great if AI and drones were refined to the point where you could input intelligence info and know that the true baddies* would be weeded out and dealt with.

Until then, Israel are in an impossible situation. Yes, everyone wants a ceasefire, but where does that leave them? The threat to their very existence could not be clearer. I understand why people want them to take a step back and plan a meticulously detailed approach with great care not to hurt anyone, but in the meantime, where does that leave them? A sitting target for more of the same, since Hamas has promised to repeat 7 October until the job or eradicating them is done.

*Of course, "true baddies" is entirely cultural. Which is why we will never see world peace.

@blackcherryconserve But the vast majority are civilians, given that Gaza's population is more than 50% children and Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, and Israel is bombing densely populated areas indiscrimnately. Israel has worked for decades to wipe Palestine off the map. Does that mean that tens of thousands of Israeli civilians should be slaughtered for their governments crimes? Many of whom voted for this government, unlike Gazans who havent been allowed an election since 2006? I certainly don't think so... but maybe you do? Or does your twisted logic only work one way?

But the majority of people who want a ceasefire and want the Israeli government and IDF to stop killing civilians... don't support Hamas.

Are you suggesting it's supporting terrorism for those of us with friends, family and colleagues in Gaza to object to them dying needlessly? For us to want investigations into what appear to be war crimes? For us to want an end to some of worst acts we've ever seen?

I have worked as an emergency responder and doctor in some very unpleasant settings, including conflicts and disasters. What my colleagues in Gaza are seeing now is worse than anything I've seen before, in terms of the scale and severity. What has happened to my colleagues in Gaza is terrible. It is one of the most dangerous places in the world for people to try to deliver healthcare or aid. Is it supporting terrorism to say that needs to stop and an alternative solution needs to be found?

You don't. International law is clear that in those circumstances it should be assumed they are civilians.
Assuming they are Hamas and acting accordingly is a war crime which is why the Israeli government are having so much trouble

@Februaryfeels Do you know that more than half of the population in Gaza is children?

I know, but that's not how these forums work.

I've tried to explore the same issue, wording things as carefully as I could, and invariably got deleted. It's annoying, because after so many deletions your account is suspended. I think it might be the way we're silenced by those who don't want us discussing anything along these lines. The chosen narrative is that Israel is committing evil war crimes, and that's that. Like it or lump it, we are not allowed to suggest that the situation might be any more nuanced. This censorship has actually made me even more determined to stick up for Jewish people and Israel. I never expected to see this in my lifetime, a surge in antisemitism solemnly applauded and defended by those who claim to be antiracist.

@ChickyBricky Why would my post be reported and deleted?

It's a reasonable question and doesn't break talk guidelines in any way.

I expect your post will be reported and deleted ("But how can a baby be Hamas!"), but this is a key question, a bit like the difficulty US troops had in Vietnam differentiating "friend" from "foe." Apparently Israel is supposed to use its intelligence network to locate and individually destroy Hamas members, but that is surely a gross oversimplification of the task, a bit like picking a mushroom while leaving the mycelium underground. Hamas's entire modus operandi is to deeply infiltrate and control every aspect of civilian life.

35,000 killed according to Hamas are not all civilians. Many Hamas fighters will have also died also people who supported Hamas and their desire to wipe Israel off the map.

35000 civilians.

How do you know if they're Hamas or not?

You question why people seem to pay more attention to the plight of Palestinian people and it's a matter of scale. What's happening to those Israeli women is an absolute tragedy for them and their families, but it simply cannot be compared to 35,000+ civilians (mostly women and children) being killed by Israel in Gaza. That's why you see people marching in the streets. You also mention childbirth and pregnancy. Have you no care for the suffering of Palestinian mothers who have had to have caesareans without anesthetic, or watch their babies starve to death or die in incubators shut off by Israels blockade? Not to mention that even before Oct 7th, countless Palestinian women were forced to give birth at Israeli checkpoints because they wouldn't let them through to hospital, were raped by Israeli soldiers, or had their young child imprisoned for years without trial for the simple act of throwing stones in the street. Thousands upon thousands of women have suffered terribly at the hands of Israel since 1948 to almost complete silence from the rest of the world.

Can I just add that only being able to use a world war including multiple countries and a war that included a horrific genocide that ran into the millions, to get to the amount of innocent lives lost in this time frame proves My point entirely.

It isn't a terrible fact of war btw.... even wars have rules and the isrealli government need to use them.

Its a clear imbalance usn't. If you support Israel as a state and its right to defend its innocent civilians against a clear act of war you are unequivocally a supporter of the Netanyahu-lead regime, regardless of what you say (I know absolutely no Jews or supporters of Israel who support Netanyahu) no space for nuance. If you support the Hamas-lead war against Israel either from a 'resistance is justified' or 'regardless of how heinous 7 October was Israel has no right to respond' perspective you are absolutely not a Hamas supporter but merely a supporter of innocent Palestinians. And so little condemnation of Hamas and how they have brutalised Palestinians.

I said modern day war.... the numbers are not fabricated.

Couldn't have put it better MrsAllsorts