New Hamas video of hostages

So what you mean is, you are not going to call out the terrorists. You are not going to call out Hamas. That is interesting in itself, thank you for the confirmation of where you stand. But yes I take your point, Hamas do oppress the people, it might help if some of them would vote against Hamas, but can they do that? Do they have free and fair elections in Palestine?

Interesting that you claim to know people who ‘died for human rights in Palestine’ - but as you well know, they will never have human rights like you enjoy in the west, as long as Hamas exist. That’s yet another reason for you to protest against Hamas, but you don’t.

I am not surprised you disagree with Mosab Hassan Youseff. He explains his first hand experience in the video very well, and I am glad to share such information on here.

I suggest that if you really were concerned for peace in the area, you would be protesting against Hamas, because as long as Hamas exist with their agenda to eradicate the Jews, peace can not exist, as I think you well know.

Dulra Are you referring to the British Government and the IRA? If so this was on home territory (Ulster), not overseas. As far as I'm aware Britain has not 'colluded with terrorists (in other countries) to commit murder'.

The British government did negotiate with terrorists. The British government even colluded with terrorists to commit murder

Of course it's a complicated situation, that's my point really.

In pure fantasy land, innocent Gazan civilians could have collaborated after 7 October to denounce the attacks and expose the terrorists behind it.

But considering the very complex reasons why they didn't (and I don't mean "all Gazans are terrorists" - more that it is hard to operate independently of Hamas, since they saturate civilian society), doesn't that explain why a "targeted/precise" approach to eliminate individuals, while protecting innocent civilians, is not at all as easy as it sounds?

I've assumed it's an autocorrect thing. Some Apple devices seem to autocorrect to that misspelling.

@MrsAllsorts

I have done more work on the ground for human rights, including human rights in Palestine, than most people posting here will have. Some of my friends and colleagues have died for human rights in Palestine. I haven't waved a placard about Hamas on a street corner over here because it doesn't make any difference to them. Instead, I have been directly active in that area. Once you have risked your life in a conflict zone, or directly spoken up to the faces of representatives of an oppressive government, then you can tell me if you think waving a placard about Hamas would be more helpful than those things in trying to challenge them.

Which video? The one referenced in the OP? Read the thread and you'll see what I wrote. Read the other threads and you'll see what else I've written about what I think of the 'men' in it. If you're asking my views on Mosab Hassan Youseff, I have a lot of sympathy for him and recognise his trauma, but I can't say I'm a huge fan of his on an individual level; we disagree on some pretty big things.

@Mummy2024 Is there a reason you repeatedly misspell Israel?

Mummy2024 you have omitted the fact that Hamas was bombarding southern Israel with rockets on 7 October while they also broke through and raped, massacred, butchered and kidnapped innocent civilians. THEY ARE STILL SENDING ROCKETS as I write. Two journalist friends were there this week and had to shelter from them.

The October terror attack took hundreds of hostages and took over 1000 lives but it was limited to the outskirts of Isreal. This does not justify it in anyway, every loss of an innocent life was an outrageous genocide that should be punished but it does say something about the fighting capability of Hamas.

We have to ask ourselves why was this attack so limited? It was because Hamas had limited fighting capabilities and were unable to take the whole of Isreal at that time, despite funding from hostile states. It tells us that at that moment in they did not have sufficient support from the palastine population to carry out a country wide attack.

Hamas are guilty of genocide and there is absolutely no doubt what so ever that Isreal needed to immediately respond to this disgusting attack and that it was defending itself from future attacks, but did it need to do so in the way it has done it?

Does it need to keep up the current intensity? The problem is the sheer intensity, loss of life and the effect their actions ie bombing civilian infastructure and the food and supply issue, is having on the innocent citizens of Gaza. Targeting the military installations and tunnels would have been acceptable. They are the rules of war.

The current tactic is probably giving hamas the support it required but did not have from the Palestinian people.

It is costing them support from other governments and at this point it seems to me that they are damaging the states future standing on the world stage.

This is not about antisemitism or siding with a particular side. I don't side with either. It's an absolute tragedy that millions of citizens in both States have been subjected to death hatred and violence for so many years due to the inability of people in power to negotiate a lasting peace and solution.

Isreal has the right to exist peacefully and so does palastine and anyone against this should be removed from power and any normal citizen attacking people should be classed as a terrorist and locked away for life.

Please show me a reliable report that 'Hamas has agreed to a two state solution's PearlKoala

Right so. Let's carrying on killing 1000s of people for decades to come. Let's continue the occupation that has been working so well. The expansion of settlements that have worked so well in promoting peace and security. The taking of 1000s of Palestinians into detention that has worked so well. Israel do not want a 2 state solution. They don't even hide it either. But it's getting to the point where it is tough shit isn't it?

Hamas have agreed to a 2 state solution.

Do you have a link of any senior Hamas members stating this post October 7?

Anything pre October 7 is nonsense. There was in fact quite a sustained period of improved relations. More visas were granted to Gazans to work in Israel. There were grassroots organisations working to improve relations (some of the Gazan participants horribly betrayed this trust by giving Hamas information on the border kibbutzim). It was tentative, but it was something that could have been built on.
Instead Hamas did what they did. October 7 was not an action that spoke loudly of a longing for a peaceful, two-state coexistence.

If you really care about Palestinian civilians, are you going to call out Hamas for what they are, and demand help from the international community to get rid of Hamas? When will you start protesting against Hamas?

Have you watched the video yet?

Are you going to call out Hamas for the disgusting loss of life at their hands?Are you going to call out Hamas for all kinds of other issues, such as lack of religious freedom, rights for women, the appalling lack of freedoms that you so enjoy living in the West. etc?

Have they? Or have they agreed to creating a Palestinian state without recognising Israel and without giving up on the idea of the right to return?

Hamas has never agreed to the two state solution. Its raison d'être is the elimination of Israel and Jewish people. There have been plenty of Israelis and Palestinians working behind the scenes trying to achieve peace including many of the kibbutzniks massacred on 7 October. How do you deal with terrorists who only want your elimination?

And where are they when it’s in place?

Have they agreed to step down?

And if they are still active somewhere how do you know they’ll stop their aims

Hamas don't want a two state solution and they don't want a ceasefire. You have to be the most naive of people to think it is possible for them to sit down with Israel and talk rationally in such terms. Their stated aim and commitment is the destruction of Israel and the death of every Jewish person (Israeli or not) on the planet. They don't even hide it. When people start rabbiting on about 'ceasefires' and two state solutions they are seemingly blind to the fact that it's simply not in the world view of Hamas. They are operating to a completely set of 'values'.

@ChickyBricky there was no great love for Hamas. I've previously posted about the emotional and psychological complexities of living under blockade and being dependent upon Hamas for survival. Those will be even more complicated now.

Many people were also in Gaza not by choice but by necessity, or because their family were there, or to provide healthcare or other services to people in need. They're all dying there. And people on here and elsewhere call them terrorists all the same.

Hamas have agreed to a 2 state solution.

Do you really think it is possible to bomb Hamas out of existence? There has been a circle of violence for decades, it doesn't work. That much is clear for all to see. A peace deal with a 2 state solution is a much safer bet for everyone. Occupation hasn't worked. Locking them all up in Gaza hasn't worked. 'Outposts' haven't worked. What else can Israel try at this point that wouldn't be even more brutal than they have tried already and hasn't already failed?

Very good question. The British Government for one doesn't negotiate with terrorists so why would we expect the Israeli Government to do so?

How do you deal with Hamas so they make way for this?

The government of Palestine would be governing Palestine clearly. Right now as you know the government of Palestine is the PA.

@Scirocco In my dreams, Gazans would be helping Israel achieve their objectives more "cleanly" by helping to flush out Hamas and dispose of them (by "removing individuals" as you put it). After all, Gazans are also clearly the victims of Hamas. I wonder if the reasons this hasn't happened are also the reasons that explain a more scattershot approach (setting aside budget issues), i.e. there is no easy separation to be made because of Hamas's deep infiltration into all aspects of society?

I'm only thinking out loud here - if you know people in Gaza, how do they see it? Have they spent a lifetime trying to get away from Hamas, only to now find themselves trapped in this appalling situation?

@PearlKoala do you really think it is possible to sit down with Hamas and agree peaceful concessions? even if they agreed them, would you trust them to stick by their promises?

How would you deal with Hamas?

Are they governing?