New Hamas video of hostages

Propaganda doesnt help anyone.....

Thank you for being the next person to perfectly illustrate what we are up against.

They don't have the capability to eradicte Israel, so its not even possible. Are you basicly saying its fine to kill the whole population because its leaders want to irradiate Jews? Even though Israel is heavily defended and has a world power alliance who will all step in to defend it?

There was nothing said about rape or pregnancy. Thats Israeli propaganda.

Why are some people so eager to do Hamas' PR work for them?

I'm would find other ways to stop that neighbour i wouldn't chose, the destruction of the entire population I can tell you that.
Israel are a rich, heavily defended nation with some exceedingly powerful allies who would not hesitate to get involved if there was even the slightest chance of its destruction. I'm 100% sure of that. So no I would not feel any differently if it was my country in this position.

Oh dear!

Actually I think every sane person wants peace, but Hamas are not sane. And I also think it’s important to divert attention where it needs to go, which is that Israel’s neighbour is determined to annihilate the Jews. I think I have made that clear. Thank you.

I think a man with a gun in his hand capable of killing looks abit different to a man with no gun in his hand. So yes they can be separated from civilians.

Yes I would if it avoided killing children.... you can hardly mistake a child for a hamas terrorist and yet 15000 are dead and more are starving.

Except the whole population of Gaza is not Hamas.... just like the IRA were not the entire population of Ireland. You didn’t see anyone laying seige to Ireland did you. There is no justification for the attack of the entire population of Gaza none.

The majority of people who want peace and an end to this conflict, @MrsAllsorts , want a future that involves a two state solution, justice for all, the safe return of hostages and a future where Israel and Palestine can both be safe. That future is unlikely to be built on repeated disregard for international law.

All you've done here is falsely accuse me of horrible things and cast aspersions. You have no grounds for your allegations. None at all.

You send the army into a web of tunnels like the London Underground, to fight an enemy that looks no different from ordinary civilians? You would do that to your own people, to protect the people of another country that is actively seeking the annihilation of yours?

I think it’s all very well for those of us sitting safely at home making demands on Israel, but if we had a neighbour determined to eradicate the entire population of British people, we might see things a bit differently.

This is how I see it too (although I do understand, Scirocco, that you are not exactly in the "sitting safely at home" category ). It's a complete impasse.

A ceasefire would be fabulous wouldn’t it, if Hamas can be trusted to respect it.

I agree that justice is for all, but as it is, Hamas actually promised to commit the October 7th acts again until Israel is annihilated. I am not sure they are interested in fairness and justice. If they were they would annihilate themselves. They would not commit human rights abuses as a way of life.

I. might have some sympathy with protestors who would demand such a thing. Israel is perfectly able to live in peace but it seems to me that somehow Hamas must be eradicated for that to be remotely possible, because Hamas do not want peace, they want to eradicate the Jewish and I think it’s all very well for those of us sitting safely at home making demands on Israel, but if we had a neighbour determined to eradicate the entire population of British people, we might see things a bit differently. We might see it as “our lives or theirs” and demand the whole world stops lecturing us and instead turns its full attention to Hamas, because they are the ones ultimately responsible for all the terrible things you described.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/hamas-official-we-will-repeat-october-7-attacks-until-israel-is-annihilated/0000018b-8b9d-db7e-af9b-ebdfbee90000

If that is the case you don't drop the bomb.... you send in the army and I mean mandatory enlistment.... civilians are not collateral damage. For the record I am extremely angry at Hamas.

The saying "two wrongs do not make a right" spring to mind though, when people try to deflect from the wrong doing on Israels part.

Use precision munitions instead of massive bombs sounds ideal, but where are the precise targets, when Hamas make sure it's impossible to separate them out from the civilian population?

To me, although anger at Israel is understandable, why not be even more angry with Hamas for ensuring that absolutely no one is safe?

Admit it? You'd have to be living under a rock to have missed it. You might as well say you're glad I admit the sky is blue.

When people say Ceasefire, that does not mean unilateral cessation of hostilities. A ceasefire applies to all parties. A ceasefire means getting the hostages home. It means getting aid in. It can mean a framework for peace rather than a slide further into destruction and hate. Negotiations are the best hope for stabilising the region. That does not mean leaving Hamas in power.

The atrocities of October 7th, and other acts by Hamas over the years are horrendous. Part of any justice process must involve holding perpetrators and organisers to account. I've posted on other threads my views on that. Including what the Sharia and the scholars suggest is appropriate for rapists in those circumstances.

I have worked in some pretty unpleasant situations and seen some pretty unpleasant things. My colleagues who were in Gaza (some have got out, some have been killed, some were in fact murdered, two are missing) had similarly seen a lot. It takes a lot to phase us. The amount of trauma injuries they were and are dealing with was the worst they'd seen. What they were dealing with was unimaginable. And not unavoidable. It's easy to avoid using a sniper bullet to destroy a child's leg - you just don't shoot the child's leg. It's easy to avoid torture of detainees - you just follow international law in relation to the treatment of detainees. It's easy to avoid shooting unarmed and restrained civilians - you just don't pull the trigger. It's easy to avoid using white phosphorus, AI-targeted attacks on family homes, high-yield 'dumb bombs' in residential areas, etc. These are all things that are being chosen, and it is entirely reasonable for the world to say that this is not an acceptable way to conduct operations.

It is possible to think that Hamas have done terrible things and that the Israeli government/IDF have done terrible things. It is possible to want safety, justice and peace for Israelis and for Palestinians. Part of that, I hope, can involve investigating the murders of my friends, the killings of other humanitarian workers and healthcare professionals, and the events which led to the needless deaths and injuries of innocent civilians. Justice should be for all. Not just for some.

It's pretty clear that their intentions are not solely out of concern for the hostages but also to ensure no one ever forgets that it's actually all Israel's fault

As by you were referring to my intentions as you see them, I shall answer
@Humdingerydoo.

You are taking it upon yourself to decide my motives and with the slant that I am attacking ‘Israel’.

Who is the Israel you are talking about? It took particular individuals and a State leader to ignore the surveillance soldiers’ warnings. Are you saying these individuals and State leader are representative of all Israelis ? Aren’t we told they are not?

There are other Israeli individuals and other potential Israeli State leaders who would not have ignored them.

These girls are themselves Israel, and I am hardly saying it is their fault. Are you implying their Israeli-ness does not count?

They did their highly stressful
job with dedication and full attention. They were Israeli heroes.

Do I accuse the men who ignored them? Yes, of course I do. One of the girls has actually said that had they been men, not women, they’d have been listened to

Do I accuse a system that left them undefended and alone after what they’d been seeing and warning about? Yes.

What do you think their (Israeli) parents think of their superiors doing this?

Do I accuse the IDF for sending those others who survived slaughter or capture back to the same posts, traumatised though they were. Yes.

Do I think Netanyahu is avoiding answering a lot about this and Oct 7? Yes. So do Israeli people.

My posts about these young female surveillance soldier hostages might better be on the feminist board where people would understand the depths of awfulness they went through better

• how their very intelligence and perspicacity regarding Israel’s security was rendered voiceless by their own, because they are women; as well as, how they were captured, imprisoned and probably raped, because they are women -

and also understand how impugning those involved has nothing to do with blaming Israel the entity.

But then ordinary lurkers who are concerned about this war might not see who these girls really were, and what happened to them, beyond their being tragic Hamas hostages and likely rape victims.

Even on this thread several posters have needed to ask if they were soldiers. Not everyone would know the nature of their job, that they were all female, that they were alone there, they were not all armed…. and the rest.

If these young, female conscripts had been say, Ukrainian, American, British, or anyone else, I’d think what happened to them was indefensible on all counts, and certainly a story that needs telling on a thread dedicated to them.

Obviously you have miss Netanyahu stating that he will not stop, even if the hostages are released.

I am a SA survivor and what Hamas did on the 07/10 can never be excused.
I also think that these young women deserved an explanation to:
why their concerns about a possible attack were repeatedly dismissed by their superiors.
why the Egyptian warning was also ignored.
why it took so long for the Israeli Defence Force to come to their rescue.
I think it is legitimate to ask these questions of the Israeli government but, so far, Netanyahu has refused to answer them or face the hostages family, who have been subjected to heavy handed policing when protesting.
Israel was warned Hamas was planning a major attack. It was ignored. - The Washington Post
Why Israel's Police Are Ramping Up Violence Against the Families of Hostages - Haaretz Today - Haaretz.com
I abhor the violence against the Israelis on 07/10 as much as I abhor what has been happening in Gaza since that fatal day.
Both Hamas and the Israeli government are, in my eyes, guilty of war crimes and extreme cruelty.
I expect nothing less from Hamas but the Israeli government's actions should not be excused either.

Israel won't commit to stopping if the hostages are released from what I understand?, has it been said that they will?

They can enter in full force. By full force i mean mandatory enlistment (population wide) stop shooting and bombing indiscriminately which is against international law. Stop the seige and allow in food and water. Use precision munitions instead of massive bombs.

"There was no other way" isn't a reasonable excuse for a genocide and denying people food, water and medicine amounts to genocide.

What is abundantly clear is that hamas do not have the operational ability to invade Israel. They have even less capability now, which is a very good thing.

Therefore a ceasefire is exceedingly unlikely to allow an attack on Israel and even if it does Isreal has the capability and allies needed to repel any attempt at lightning speed.

So the if we stop they will attack us excuse just doesn't ring true to me.

They aren't. The police aren't bothered.

Anyone carrying a placard that says that can and should be arrested so presumably they are being....