New Hamas video of hostages

They were soldiers. But look at my earlier post linking a BBC article. What happened to them is absolutely terrible in so many ways.

Sorry, I see now they were taken while serving on a military base, so I'm guessing they would come under soldier hostages.

Poor girls, I hope they can be brought home. Does anyone know if they were soldiers? Just wondering if they would be classed as civilian or soldier in hostage release negotiations.

This video has only surfaced now that Israel and Netanyahu are losing their support internationally.
These girls are also innocent victims and I think it’s really sad that your response to the video is to see them as a PR exercise from Netanyahu.

Child ‘hostages’ like these ones @ToughToffee ?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-just-convicted-of-stabbing-her-neighbor-may-be-freed-in-hamas-deal/amp/

https://www.thejc.com/news/world/palestinian-teenager-found-guilty-of-stabbing-soldier-tythbvvw

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12788733/Palestinian-arrested-16-border-guard-knife-attack-Israel-release-inmates.html

@ScrollingLeaves Sorry Scrolling, I meant to tag you into that. I do remember it was us having this conversation a while back if memory serves.

Then a poster came on to say she was against what is happening to Palestinians, but she would describe herself as a Zionist.

Well this may have been me and it's a very common feeling among Jewish people, the two concepts are not incompatible.

Most Jews believe in Israel's right to exist and a Jewish homeland, which is the result of centuries of our persecution. That's it, that's Zionism. It's quite a basic concept so when certain posters on here use derogatory language against Zionists - and others just use it as code for Jew - you must be able to see how utterly offensive that is.

I used to think Zionism meant believing what Netanyahu, Ben-Givr and Smotrich, West Bank settlers and somebody (woman) Weiss believes

Every Jewish person I know despises them, and most Jewish people on here have also noted this.

Those are very different ideas of Zionism. I think people objecting to Zionism are thinking of the first kind. I know I did but I just steer clear of the word now as I don’t know what it means.

It doesn't matter how many times people on this board are told Zionism to us just means Israel's right to exist, some posters will always choose to believe "the first kind".
For example, in one thread there is nothing but links to Instagram posts about Gaza with a very aggressive message along the lines of "Zionists look at this", with every single post, which obviously means us. I am sure you will have seen it. It's disingenuous, offensive, childish and does absolutely nothing but serve to cause further division by someone with no actual skin in the game.

You should not accuse someone of bullshit terrorist propaganda in a post like this so evidently influenced it.

Yes I have sympathy for them but that's not what this thread is about so...

One rule for us, another rule for everyone else.

It really is. Misappropriating, redefining or misusing a term with a specific meaning to a certain group is outrageous and indefensible, apart from when it's done to one particular minority.

Why? It was a valid question? Are you not able to have a balanced view? Clearly not....

@Humdingerydoo , I think there has been a real problem about finding a definition about what Zionism means exactly on these threads, as even when asked, there does not seem to be any one answer from posters who might know more about it.

Also it is not clear what the different beliefs (are in detail) of people whose only point in common is that they are Jewish and Zionist, as they are completely different otherwise.

I used to think Zionism meant believing what Netanyahu, Ben-Givr and Smotrich, West Bank settlers and somebody (woman) Weiss believes. That it meant effectively that in the end either all the land is for the Jews, or as much as possible should be resettled and removed from Palestinians; and that Palestinians need to be moved into Egypt if possible etc or otherwise scattered and their lands confiscated or fenced in with check points; or killed for ‘security’ reasons.

Then a poster came on to say she was against what is happening to Palestinians, but she would describe herself as a Zionist. I think she meant it in the sense that Israel must be a home for Jewish people, as intended after the WW11. This I can well understand especially knowing how the U.K. and USA were not welcoming to Jews after the war. They made things what they are in a way by providing this alternative in Israel for Jewish people, and a solution must be found as there is no going back now.

Those are very different ideas of Zionism. I think people objecting to Zionism are thinking of the first kind. I know I did but I just steer clear of the word now as I don’t know what it means.

That wasn't my point; it's more that when politics is nutty enough, it's a circle, not a spectrum - both ends meet.

If you want to talk about Palestinian prisoners, why not do it on a thread about Palestinian prisoners?

@ToughToffee the video was released by the families of the hostages in particular the girls who were kidnapped, in the hopes it would push the government to do more to bring them back home. And specifically to resume negotiations that had stalled. I see, since then that the Israeli government have said that negotiations are to resume again so hopefully its one step closer to them coming home again and for this dreadful war to end.

As another post said, do you also think the Democratic Republic of North Korea is a democracy?

The Nazis were fascists, not socialists and this current thing about claiming they were socialist is a desperate attempt by actual right wing fascists to pretend "the left is just as bad". Don't fall for it.

The situation in Israel is too serious to play culture wars and try to reduce to left v. Right.

Do you have the same sympathy for the Palestinian hostages that have been imprisoned for 10+ years by Israel...a lot of them children?

This video has only surfaced now that Israel and Netanyahu are losing their support internationally.

This video does not in any way justify the genocide that is going on. People would have more sympathy if 40k+ people (most of whom are children) did not die. And the very argument that they are 'human shields' or whatever nonsense people like to justify their deaths can be applied to the Israeli hostages as well....just collateral between two warring states....

That puts sharply into perspective every single frustration I have ever had with incompetent/dismissive work colleagues. Imagine 😟

What I find even more disturbing is that the word "genocide" is never used to describe the threat Israel faces, despite that intention having been made abundantly clear in the most horrific ways.

@Scirocco Noted, I won't use it again. Honestly, I had no idea it had such strong negative connotations. As explained, the reason I used it rather than "fascism" was because of the apparent Western liberal inability to see fascism as anything other than a "white/colonial" issue. This was my contribution to the thread's theme about blindness and censorship from the Left.

@Humdingerydoo That would be marvellous!

My heart goes out to these girls and their loved ones and ALL the victims of this conflict. It's always the vulnerable- children, women, the elderly, the disabled, who suffer most in war and I pray for all of them regardless.
As a survivor of male abuse and violence, I condemn it totally, no matter who the perps are. I would think this could be classed as a war crime, and should be punished accordingly, as should all war crimes. However, we know the atrocities of winning sides tend not to be dealt with justly. Personally, I think the atomic bombs dropped on Japan was a war crime by America but they won, so they never faced justice at the time and it's too late now. We live in a very unjust, cruel world where the powerful have always persecuted the vulnerable and as much as that makes my blood boil, there are no easy answers.
I pray to God those poor girls are rescued asap, words can't describe the horror of what's being done to them!

@ChickyBricky

From the explanation provided it seems it might be best not to use the word in the future. It should really be enough to just say fascism, I guess! Not sure anyone here would complain too much if you called Ayatollah Khomeini a fascist.

Now if only people would also be careful with using words like "Zionist" properly, that'd be great. People have no problem with that apparently being a "discuss and debate" word, despite protestations from actual Zionists. One rule for us, another rule for everyone else.