New Hamas video of hostages

Yes, because supporting Hamas is supporting terrorists, no matter how you try and dress it up. I’ll have some respect when they start demanding an end to Hamas and their activities, including Hamas hiding behind human shields and Hamas killing innocent people.

Whilst these. protestors are at, they can start campaigning against Hamas religious fundamentalism and demand equal rights for women. Maybe they can also demand Hamas allow Palestinians the right to protest against them without risk to life.

Not quite. As I understand it a prosecutor has applied but the court is yet to decide whether to issue warrants. This is a useful explainer ftom a reliable organisation. .https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/05/icc-prosecutors-applications-arrest-warrants-explained

@ChickyBricky - we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. It is the ICC that have jurisdiction in respect of violations of international humanitarian law mentioned in the Geneva conventions and they wish to arrest Netanyahu and others for crimes against humanity.

@MrsAllsorts accusing people of being terrorist supporters is actually quite a serious accusation to make. You say campaigns calling for an end to the killing of civilians are "pro-terrorist" - on what grounds?

If someone believes the actions of the Israeli government and IDF are wrong, how does that make someone "pro-terrorist"?

Thank YOU MrsAllsorts your post is most appreciated!
I do hope you're wrong about Labour pushing Starmer out after the election. The Party may have a long way to go both in its fight against antisemitism within its ranks and also on the subject of women's rights, but I can see no option other than to vote for them to oust the Tories.
I have had quite upsetting correspondence with my own Labour MP about Israel and Gaza to the extent she didn't respond to my last email (basically she had no answer to back up her argument!) and won't vote for her based upon that but she will no doubt retain her seat with an increased majority.
I will probably spoil my ballot paper 🤬

It's because they've been going on about it on this thread multiple times, as well as on other threads over several months. It's pretty clear that their intentions are not solely out of concern for the hostages but also to ensure no one ever forgets that it's actually all Israel's fault. All of it. If Israel had just listened, none of this would have happened. That's the implication. None of the responsibility is therefore on the murderous terrorists who murdered and terrorised because actually, it was all just a failure on Israel's side.

If it was just out of concern for the hostages, they wouldn't be posting this frequently. It's just hammering home a point, a point that people who care are already very well-aware of. Others who don't particularly care or weren't previously aware will have already read the posts about it on this very thread. It doesn't need repeating that often under the pretence of purely caring about the hostages.

I have no problem with the truth. I have a problem with what this poster is seemingly trying to imply by repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again. That's their only contribution to this topic - how it's all Israel's fault for not listening.

OP, I cannot bare to watch these videos, it’s so awful.

I support Israel and the Jews in this 100%. I am genuinely very concerned at the pro terrorist protests, which is exactly what they are.

I am deeply concerned about people ignorantly supporting creeping fundamentalist fascism.

I do not personally know a single Jewish person, but if I did I would try to offer words of support, though I am not sure what I would say.

I will never support Labour. Keir cannot control the more radical MPs in his party. I fear some of them are trying to keep relatively quiet until election, but will quickly dispense with Keir once he has served his purpose in presenting the ‘moderate face of the left’. And look at that horrendous Green Party councillor, I am sure you know the one I mean.

I also want to thank you for your courage OP, in posting this. I actually don’t participate very much on social media, but I think it is important to counter the noise of the terrorist supporting mob. We must not let them control the narrative.

@mollyfolk Interpretation of the Geneva Convention is going to be extremely difficult in these circumstances.

There's an interesting Reuters summary here, which explores some of the issues on both sides.

"The Geneva Conventions and subsequent rulings by international tribunals show that proportionality is not a numbers game where the toll of civilian casualties on one side can be compared to the other, rather such casualties should be proportionate to the direct and concrete military advantage expected from that specific attack."

My spell checker changes Israel to Isreal if I make a typo in it - take it up with Apple! I have no issue with Israel’s existence if that is what you are getting at.

The poster she was responding to mentioned Modern war. I am assuming she means post Geneva convention warfare. Invoking the allies actions in WW2 has become part of the moral defence that the Israeli authorities are using to justify their war and that rhetoric is being repeated by posters on here.

Yes usually it’s a bit more low key but there

I agree with you scrolling

This again?

@mollyfolk @SharonEllis was not doing this - she was making it clear that accuracy is important.

By the way, you know very well that Israel is spelt Israel - not Isreal as so many posters are now using this spelling. I have my suspicions why.

I wasn't justifying Israel's conduct I was contributing to a discussion about historical accuraccy.

Good point ChickyBricky

Yes. That's why I'm not reporting it: it perfectly captures what we're up against. I'm not Jewish, but Delphinium's dismissive contempt is discreetly woven into so many of the threads on MN that I've turned into a bit of a keyboard warrior against it (sometimes clumsy in my zeal). It's helpful to see it spelt out so clearly.

Trying to justify Isreal’s conduct by comparing it to the devastation that occurred in WW2 is a dangerous path to do down. This is before the Geneva conventions were agreed. The international rules of war protect all of us. It matters when they are broken - we should never be desensitised to death like this.

Haven't read @ScrollingLeaves other posts but don't understand the problem people have with this one. Those women do deserve to have their whole lives talked about, they are much more than just Hamas victims. I believe these women tried to raise the alarm, but weren't listened to. The are Israeli heroes. As for disputing whether they have been raped or not, even if they weren't raped on 7/10 I would be amazed if they haven't been raped multiple times since. In fact I think the only thing that might have protected them from rape is death, and even that might not have protected them. With regard the Palestinians killed, we don't have a limited supply of compassion, we can feel for both, it's all wrong, the whole lot of it.
I googled these girls, it's tragic and unimaginable what might be happening to them right now. Right now, while I'm sat here drinking coffee, they could be being tortured, that's if they not already dead. If that doesn't haunt people, it should, it should haunt them every bit as much as little Hind, who must have been killed terrified, after seeing her family killed.
It's all wrong, all of it. And shame on anyone who only cares for 'their' side.

What the actual fuck have I just read

The Gaza ministry of health don’t distinguish. Netanyahu has claimed that 50% of the dead are combatants.

Are combatant fatalities counted separately or included with civilians?

You misunderstand. The report wasn't that numbers had been exaggerated, but that a new way of counting those not yet identified has been implemented.

It changed from 35,000 to 24,686 dead not because approx 10,000 additional people didnt die, but because their bodies haven't been formally identified. So if you've got the body of a small child, it's not included in the 24,686 until it's got an age, name etc. They are still dead.

Using this to claim that death rates have been exaggerated is disgusting and genocide denial.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed

I wish it had remained unknowable.

The extent - the sheer mental gymnastics - that antisemites will go to to discredit, to deny, to belittle Jewish suffering.

I used to wonder how the Holocaust could happen, and then be denied.

Now I know.

Around 25,000 people died in Dresden alone in just 3 days. And that's the lower estimate. Wars are horrific. All of them.
And it was recently widely reported ( though not exactly headlined) that the numbers in Gaza had been exaggerated after all.