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Conflict in the Middle East
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HelenHen · 20/05/2024 19:17

This is wonderful news. Hopefully it will be a wake up call for Israel to stop the genocide. Most countries will support the ICC, and Biden should be very careful with how he responds. We all know he has no choice but to support Israel, but it's time for that unconditional support to come to an end. He cannot belittle international justice in his unwavering support of Israel

gloriagloria · 20/05/2024 19:14

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:29

Very well said:

This outrageous decision is truly a slap in the face to the independent judiciary in Israel, which is renowned for their independence.

We must not forget as a nation the International Criminal Court threatened to bring action against American forces in Afghanistan – and we are a non-member.

I will be issuing a detailed statement regarding the outrageous actions by the ICC against the State of Israel and I will feverishly work with colleagues on both sides of the aisle in both chambers to levy damning sanctions against the ICC.

However, these are my initial thoughts.

Most importantly, I want the world to know that I, along with my Republican and Democrat colleagues, and members of the Administration engaged the ICC on this issue weeks ago.

We were told there would be discussions with Israel before any actions were taken. We stressed that the principle of “complementarity” should be applied in this case. Complementarity requires the ICC to let the nation in question’s legal system move first before any action is taken by the Court.

Prosecutor Khan’s team was supposed to be in Israel today to arrange a meeting for next week with the prosecutor’s office about the allegations. I was told by ICC staff that the investigation would likely take months and not weeks, and that there would be meaningful consultation with the State of Israel.

Instead of the ICC following through with scheduled consultations with Israel, they announced the warrants.

I feel that I was lied to and that my colleagues were lied to. Prosecutor Khan is drunk with self-importance and has done a lot of damage to the peace process and to the ability to find a way forward.

Lying prosecutors never bring about just outcomes.

I totally understand the wish to defend Israel's right to existence and to defend itself. And horror at 7/10. But can you really not see that criticism of what the Israeli government is doing now is rooted in genuine belief that it is morally and legally wrong, not antisemitism?

OhMaria2 · 20/05/2024 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Mummy2024 · 20/05/2024 18:12

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 13:38

No chance mate. Your hopes will be dashed.

Very notable that you did not mention getting the Hamas leaders. Tells us everything.

They should all be locked up, both sides. 35000 civilian deaths in gaza with over half of them innocent children in months not years. 1200 innocent young isrealli people slaughtered in broad day light.

They been bombed and starved to actual death for an atrocitie they did not commit. Its genocide on both sides and we need a better system than this icc rubbish.

This should be stopped today, demanded by every country in the world. Stop or we will stop you, both sides.

Auvergne63 · 20/05/2024 18:11

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:59

So glad you agree.

Evidence, please.

Polka83 · 20/05/2024 18:03

Dulra · 20/05/2024 16:48

Lindsey Graham 🙄

This is the same senator who said that the IDF should use an atomic bomb in Gaza.

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:59

Auvergne63 · 20/05/2024 17:47

Of course it is. Care to provide evidence to back up your claim?

So glad you agree.

Auvergne63 · 20/05/2024 17:47

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:26

The ICC is anti-Semitic.

Of course it is. Care to provide evidence to back up your claim?

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:29

Dulra · 20/05/2024 16:48

Lindsey Graham 🙄

Very well said:

This outrageous decision is truly a slap in the face to the independent judiciary in Israel, which is renowned for their independence.

We must not forget as a nation the International Criminal Court threatened to bring action against American forces in Afghanistan – and we are a non-member.

I will be issuing a detailed statement regarding the outrageous actions by the ICC against the State of Israel and I will feverishly work with colleagues on both sides of the aisle in both chambers to levy damning sanctions against the ICC.

However, these are my initial thoughts.

Most importantly, I want the world to know that I, along with my Republican and Democrat colleagues, and members of the Administration engaged the ICC on this issue weeks ago.

We were told there would be discussions with Israel before any actions were taken. We stressed that the principle of “complementarity” should be applied in this case. Complementarity requires the ICC to let the nation in question’s legal system move first before any action is taken by the Court.

Prosecutor Khan’s team was supposed to be in Israel today to arrange a meeting for next week with the prosecutor’s office about the allegations. I was told by ICC staff that the investigation would likely take months and not weeks, and that there would be meaningful consultation with the State of Israel.

Instead of the ICC following through with scheduled consultations with Israel, they announced the warrants.

I feel that I was lied to and that my colleagues were lied to. Prosecutor Khan is drunk with self-importance and has done a lot of damage to the peace process and to the ability to find a way forward.

Lying prosecutors never bring about just outcomes.

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

The ICC is anti-Semitic.

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 17:25

OhMaria2 · 20/05/2024 14:33

Everything like terrorism is bad but not as bad as genocide, ethnic cleansing and forced famines?

You mean in the Sudan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4dk2kzy5wo

The only genocide in Israel was the attack BY Hamas on innocent Jews.

Israel continues to dismantle the Hamas battalions whom use their civilians as human shields.

A boy sits atop a hill overlooking a refugee camp near the Chad-Sudan border, November 9, 2023

Sudan conflict: Possible genocide committed in Darfur, HRW says

The RSF is accused of committing ethnic cleansing against Massalit and other non-Arab communities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4dk2kzy5wo

Auvergne63 · 20/05/2024 16:51

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Dulra · 20/05/2024 16:48

EasterIssland · 20/05/2024 16:40

Just seen a USA senator is already threatening icc

https://x.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1792535545249165506

Lindsey Graham 🙄

Dulra · 20/05/2024 16:46

This reply has been deleted

Removed for repeating deleted post

mactire · 20/05/2024 16:44

Glad to see Netanyahu tagged as what he is. I doubt it will have an effect on any of them - from either side - but the messaging is powerful.

EasterIssland · 20/05/2024 16:40

EasterIssland · 20/05/2024 16:25

will be Interesting to see what USA has to say. USA was trying to hold off so that Israel would agree to a ceasefire. As this hasn’t been agreed now hopefully it won’t block a future ceasefire deal.

it’s had not made any impact on putin as some have mentioned here.

but, in my opinion it’s good to see a countries leader been prosecuted for things that are war crimes. I think it sends a message to others : for defending your country you don’t have to starve and kill the population of another country.

Just seen a USA senator is already threatening icc

https://x.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1792535545249165506

EasterIssland · 20/05/2024 16:26

In case anyone wants to read what icc has said

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state

EasterIssland · 20/05/2024 16:25

will be Interesting to see what USA has to say. USA was trying to hold off so that Israel would agree to a ceasefire. As this hasn’t been agreed now hopefully it won’t block a future ceasefire deal.

it’s had not made any impact on putin as some have mentioned here.

but, in my opinion it’s good to see a countries leader been prosecuted for things that are war crimes. I think it sends a message to others : for defending your country you don’t have to starve and kill the population of another country.

gloriagloria · 20/05/2024 16:21

I agree that nothing will happen to him, but it is sending a powerful message and making it more difficult for allies (and the public) to carry on supporting the Israeli government's actions.

Auvergne63 · 20/05/2024 16:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TakeMe2Insanity · 20/05/2024 15:34

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 13:38

No chance mate. Your hopes will be dashed.

Very notable that you did not mention getting the Hamas leaders. Tells us everything.

No it doesn’t.

The majority of the Israeli population are living in relative safety and security compared to the majority of the Gazan population. I’m not talking about feeling under threat I am talking about immediate risk to life.

OhMaria2 · 20/05/2024 14:33

keenforhelp · 20/05/2024 13:38

No chance mate. Your hopes will be dashed.

Very notable that you did not mention getting the Hamas leaders. Tells us everything.

Everything like terrorism is bad but not as bad as genocide, ethnic cleansing and forced famines?

TheFirmBiscuit · 20/05/2024 14:32

While the International Criminal Court (ICC) has jurisdiction over individuals accused of genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and aggression, its authority is primarily over states that are parties to the Rome Statute (signatories). If a finding is made against the head of state of a non-signatory country, the obligations of signatory states are somewhat complex and nuanced:

  1. Cooperation with the ICC:

Arrest and Surrender: If the accused head of state enters the territory of a signatory state, they are obligated to arrest and surrender the individual to the ICC, regardless of their official status. This is a key principle of the Rome Statute, ensuring that no one is above the law.

There are 124 countries that are signatories. The one's that aren't are ;

United States: The U.S. signed the Rome Statute in 2000 but later unsigned it in 2002.
China: China has neither signed nor ratified the Rome Statute.
Russia: Russia signed the Rome Statute in 2000 but never ratified it. In 2016, it withdrew its signature.
India: India has neither signed nor ratified the Rome Statute.
Israel: Israel signed the Rome Statute in 2000 but never ratified it.
Iran: Iran has neither signed nor ratified the Rome Statute.
Turkey: Turkey has neither signed nor ratified the Rome Statute.
Ukraine: Ukraine signed the Rome Statute in 2000 but has not yet ratified it.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 20/05/2024 14:28

Scirocco · 20/05/2024 14:18

In the thread title and the link.

Apologies!! Thanks.

Scirocco · 20/05/2024 14:18

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 20/05/2024 14:00

How about the Hams leaders that organsied the hideous attacs on 7th Oct??

Its a pointless exercise, IMO

In the thread title and the link.