Israel Gaza war: ICC prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Hamas leaders

Drawing attention to some failure of the ICJ/UN does nothing to establish that the ICC is institutionally anti Israel

Major logic fail

Dear me, one swallow does not make spring.

Just establishing that the ICC and ICJ are institutionally anti- Israel.

As Steve Bannon famously said ;

“The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit.”

That’s the Bannon business model: Flood the zone. Stink up the joint. As Jonathan Rauch once said, citing Bannon’s infamous quote, “This is not about persuasion: This is about disorientation.”

Wrong court ICC has nothing to do with the UN that's the ICJ

Why is anybody not surprised.

https://www.thejc.com/news/world/uns-gaza-war-crimes-investigator-has-anti-israel-history-kf4301qn

Absolutely. The days of shutting down any criticism of the Israeli government by claiming it is anti semitic are long gone.

You can't just keep throwing that word around like this, it's not a weapon to beat people with. It's being thrown around so much regarding this issue and People are becoming immune to its true meaning. Antisemitism is a hatred of all Jewish people. The holocaust was a genocide and it is now being suggested with evidence that a genocide is taking place. Therefore the comment is not antisemitic. Stop this throwing it around like this to justify the unjustifiable.

Can I just say the antisemitic line has worked in this country for a long time, when it's come to criticism of isrealli government policy and in some cases was likely justified but when I comes to what is being done to these innocent civilians, it just will not wash. You can say it as many times as you like, I've worried many times over the years about having an opinion on isrealli policy many times over the years due to not wanting the label, but no more. A line has been crossed by the government of Isreal and as human beings we should all stand up and be counted. Children actual children are being shot bombed and starved to death and I will not live in fear of an unjustified label. I don't see you arguing that the arrest warrent for hamas is islamaphobia? That's because it isn't. Crimes are being committed and all should be held responsible on both sides

Yes America picks and chooses based on its preferred foreign policy, who the good and bad ones are... putin bad, nethinahu good, despite the fact we are having to over rule him and air drop food because he won't allow any in which equals genocide...

Objecting to The killing of over 15000 innocent CHILDREN is antisemitic??? I don't think so.... its called having humanity. How anyone can imply not supporting innocent children being bombed and starved to death is due to a religious hatred is beyond me.... what would God say to his beautiful innocent children being slaughtered and maimed in this way?

You would have thought that the leading advocate of rules based order would at least be considering the use of rendition to get Netanyahu to the Hague. Not !

A very bare and disingenous statement as well implying an equivalence which isn't there unless you choose to find it. One feels that this 'support' from Biden is through very gritted teeth indeed.Bibi won't be getting any friendhip visits from his ex mates anytime soon and if Trump gets back though and Bibi hangs on there maybe a reconciliation where he gets to choose his plot on the Mount of Olives and/or his escape if he ever needs a refuge himself.

Yeah, if you are innocent and have nothing to hide, why do everything in your power to stop an investigation? To even stop journalists? (They banned Al Jazeera- only reputable international news outlet in Gaza- bombing their offices was done the first week of the war)

The very people that could prove your innocence you treat like an enemy.

I feel the outrage is masking a sense of guilt.

@Kendodd the other way US has threatened the process is to impose economic and travel sanctions on the Karem Khan the prosecutor, his team and the ICC itself - tho' possibly don't have a sufficient majority in the US senate to do this

Israel have already imposed travel bans and refuse ICC investigators entry into Gaza

I am no expert and only repeating some fact sheet a news outlet posted.

I think it would have to be indirect via the UNSC as the UNSC can refer motions re war crimes to the ICC. The US will likely argue that because Israel is outside jurisdiction, no arrest warrants can be issued for the conflict. As in Hamas arrest warrants can’t be done, but neither can Israeli arrest warrants. That none of the conflict is anything the ICC can rule on. They would expect to get broader support that way.

They will argue Hamas leaders, once caught, should stand trial in Israel for their war crimes under their domestic terrorism laws (which carry the death penalty.) A few Arab nations might be ok with this, as they can whisk away Hamas leaders with no extradition and protect them too.

If the US loses this argument (high chance rn) and can’t get the UNSC on side to either agree or abstain, they will then whisk Nethanyu and Gallant away into exile in the US (US isn’t under ICC jurisdiction and there is no extradition agreement) and then say, oh look new leadership in Israel, let’s look to the future.

The US has a lot of soft power it can deploy to make states vote the way it wants them too. Economic sanctions, withholding of foreign aid, pledges to intervene or stay out of other conflicts. I wouldn’t put it past the US telling Putin we will let you have Ukraine if you vote for the ICC to drop this..

From the ICJ thread yesterday @PeasfullPerson

Reaction from Hamas

Hamas official: ICC prosecutor’s decision ‘equates the victim with the executioner’

The decision by the ICC prosecutor to seek arrest warrants for three Hamas leaders “equates the victim with the executioner”, a senior Hamas official told the Reuters news agency.

Sami Abu Zuhri also said the ICC decision gives encouragement to Israel to continue its “war of extermination” in Gaza.

Biden
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/20/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-the-warrant-applications-by-the-international-criminal-court/

It is only designed to maybe bring a few of the wrong ethnicity/nationality war criminals to trial long after the innocent dead are bones in a field.

Its better than nothing, but it needs to be reformed to have more power.

Agree but I am not sure what other non military option there is? We don't want countries taking up arms to stop war crimes so the legal route is the only option we have, plus others such as sanctions etc

I haven’t seen a response from any of the leaders of Hamas, so can’t comment on that.

I am very annoyed and not in the slightest bit surprised, that Netanyahu is trying to say that the reason he is on the list of warrants being sought is down to antisemitism.

No Netanyahu, you are on the list because you have broken the law. A ‘just war’ does not involve the displacement of the majority of a population and the destruction of their homeland, a just war does not indiscriminately kill and maim over thirty thousand people while denying them access to proper sanitation, health services and nutrition.

A just response would minimise the threat instead of increasing it, and adding to a sequence of events that have spread hatred and prejudice throughout the world.

As for the line that this shouldn’t happen because it equates him with Hamas and it is a moral outrage… I think the intelligence of the public has been underestimated. Has anyone ever successfully managed to avoid being charged for something, because somebody they deem to be worse is also being charged for something else? I don’t think that’s how the law works.

Thanks for explaining better.

If the US isn't a member of the ICC how/where do they bring legal challenges to their rulings?

I am similar, I think it a sort of futile virtue signalling. The ICC has no way to enforce the law or arrest criminals- they depend on the UN Security Council to do it.

The Serbian genocide is a good case example of how our international system isn’t designed to prevent or stop war crimes. It is only designed to maybe bring a few of the wrong ethnicity/nationality war criminals to trial long after the innocent dead are bones in a field.

Its better than nothing, but it needs to be reformed to have more power.

I’m glad you responded to that post @statsfun