Egypt and Jordan- their roles in the conflict

@Disturbedby The Egyptian government would not do anything to assist Hamas, no matter how they feel about Israel. They are Islamic fundamentalist terrorists and are a destabilising influence in the region.

That’s good to know @JSMill but Sinwar and other Hamas members are getting in and out of Gaza somehow.

You don't know what you are talking about. The Egyptian military government constantly work hard to shut the tunnels down. They don't want terrorists or their arms in Egypt. Part of the reason the military overthrew the Muslim brotherhood government was that they were facilitating the passage of arms in these tunnels. Sinai turned into the Wild West under that regime and it took the army years to get the situation under control.

I saw in the news today that of the 700 tunnels found under Rafah, 50 of them pop up in Egypt. So the Egyptians appear to be neutral / hands off to the world but are complicit in terrorism.

The Jordanians don't want more Palestinians in their country after Black September.

It's a complicated landscape, that's for sure.

I can't answer your question straight off, I'd have to look that up.

What I do know is that they left Gaza with a thriving market gardening economy (flowers & fruit/veg)
As a child I can remember seeing orange boxes in greengrocers' shops with "produce of Israel" stamped on them.
I believe these came primarily from Gaza and the West Bank.

Good points, @onegrumpyoldwoman and @mids2019 .
That's what makes this such a complicated situation.

IMO the Palestinians in the West Bank squandered their chance of a Palestinian State in 1948 when they agreed to align themselves with Jordan.

If they had pushed for recognition then we might not be having this discussion now.

When Jordan pulled out from the West Bank in 1988 they sold the Palestinians down the river by removing their Jordanian citizenships and passports, effectively making them stateless.

(I can't understand why they aren't incensed over this ?)

Gazans had a better deal under Egypt with Nasser who supported educational facilities and funded scholarships for Gazans at Cairo Universities.

Unfortunately, complex issues with the Suez Canal and Egypt's failed alliance with Syria impacted on this, as did the rise of the terrorist group The Muslim Brotherhood.

Indeed, it seems as if they don't want the Palestinian problem.
I would agree that a ceasefire and a peace treaty would be desirable. However, there are layers of complexity here to which the OP was alluding.

What it means is very little in the absence of an agreed ceasefire and peace treaty.

Egypt and Jordan aren't likely to rush to make themselves targets. Both countries could help in relation to peacekeeping and rebuilding, but they'll want that to be within a framework that protects them too.

I think it's pointless to go down this route. It could go on for some time, and won't get anywhere.
I'm interested in the OP's posts and the role of Egypt and Jordan over the decades, and what it could mean going forward.

They haven't prioritised bringing them home. That's their responsibility.

@Taciturn as you've mentioned, though, the PLO has been accepting of a two state solution for decades now. Efforts were made, and have been repeatedly sabotaged.

The alternatives to a two state solution would be: total displacement of all Palestinians and eradication of them as a people with any homeland (which I would hope most people can see wouldn't be at all just, and which would involve further bloodshed and human rights violations as we've been seeing), or establishment of a single state incorporating both Israel and Palestine, with equal rights (which would, as a consequence, result in the loss of the only Jewish state in the world, which would not be right either). So, a two state solution really is the better option here.

They didn't kidnap them.
That's the responsibility of those who did so.

The hostages should be a major concern for everyone. Unfortunately, the current Israeli government and IDF leadership don't seem to have prioritised them.

As far as I am aware @Scirocco , Palestinian leaders have turned down the option of a two state solution more than 100 times over the years. I believe that it has something to do with an uncompromising belief that the entire area belongs to Palestinians, but I am not well versed. From the Wikipedia page on the two state solution:

"The leadership of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation has accepted in principle the concept of a two-state solution since the 1982 Arab Summit in Fez, having previously turned down such proposals since 1937. In 2017, Hamas announced their revised charter, which claims to accept the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, but without recognising the statehood of Israel, referring to it as "the Zionist entity"."

It's suggesting recognising the state of Palestine will have a negative impact on hostage release negotiations. I'm unsure why and would have thought it would be part of the negotiations. I doubt the Irish government would want to do anything to jeopardise their safe release so I'll wait to see what they do next and whether they agree.

The article is really about the hostage release situation, though, isn't it?
That's the major point for the Israelis, the hostages.

Unfortunately Israel aren't happy with countries that are trying to recognise the state of Palestine and are looking to shut down any dialogue for it

RTE news : Taoiseach warned over Palestine recognition

www.rte.ie/news/2024/0519/1449998-ireland-israel/

I agree.

Personally I doubt if it is possible.

As it is such a big topic I think I'll start another thread on it.

This is the fairest and most sensible solution but I don't know how this is going to achieved. There isn't a single world leader trying to find a way to peace.

@Teddleshon - that's what's been concerning me recently. Just looking at a map of the region would help, also looking at a neutral history (they do exist).

This is a great thread, wonderful to hear the complexities of the situation acknowledged rather than just random inflammatory words thrown around.

The lack of actual knowledge of the history of the region by people who give up their time to protest is genuinely astonishing to me.

Although, @Scirocco I do agree with your last paragraph.