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Conflict in the Middle East

Gary Lineker - foot in mouth again

390 replies

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 07:39

I wish this guy would stick to football or selling crisps

Most recently, he gave an interview to Medhi Hassan (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/12/lineker-appears-to-call-oct-7-attacks-the-hamas-thing/ ) where he appeared to minimise the October 7th Hamas attacks as “the Hamas thing”, whilst falsely stating of the war in Gaza “I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen worse in my lifetime”. This statement is absurd hyperbole given that Mr Lineker was born in 1960 and has hence lived through major wars such as Vietnam, Iraq, Iran-Iraq, the Soviet and Western interventions in Afghanistan, and the Syrian Civil War, all of which have cost hundreds of thousands, in some cases millions, of lives.

I do not believe that it is compatible with Mr Lineker’s role as a presenter on Match of the Day, and hence an employee of our national public broadcaster, which is supposed to be politically impartial, for him to take such outspoken stances.

Watch: Gary Lineker appears to call Oct 7 attacks ‘the Hamas thing’

Critics claim ‘tone-deaf’ presenter is minimising worst anti-Semitic atrocity since the Holocaust

https://webelieveinisrael.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4f205ffabc02c1048c024eebe&id=c59e28cde9&e=da30c7163e

OP posts:
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14
onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 11:11

MissyB1 · 16/05/2024 10:59

There you go OP, loks like he hasn't broken his contract. So you can froth at the mouth all you like, doesnt mean he should be sacked.

I never said he should be sacked, I said he should be gagged.

OP posts:
onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 11:10

Hoppinggreen · 16/05/2024 10:58

genuine question (with a question mark) for @onegrumpyoldwoman
Would you have the same opinion on Linekar et al expressing an opinion like this if he was completely pro Israel?
If so then fair enough

Yes.

Celebrities seem to think their personal views about all sort of things matter more than the "man in the street". They need to know when to button up.

OP posts:
onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 11:06

@Auvergne63 Why post an article on him defecating on the pitch? It is irrelevant.

I disagree.

To behave like that shows complete disrespect to other footballers (including his own team-mates) who have to play on the same pitch.

He admits he was unwell with diarrhoea the night before but still went ahead and played because he wanted to. No respect for others it seems.

Just gross.

https://talksport.com/football/699510/gary-lineker-soiling-himself-england-1990-world-cup/

‘It just went boom’ - Lineker on soiling himself in England’s 1990 World Cup opener

Gary Lineker has recalled the moment he pooed himself while playing for England at the 1990 World Cup. The then Tottenham striker was looking to lead the Three Lions to glory in their opening match…

https://talksport.com/football/699510/gary-lineker-soiling-himself-england-1990-world-cup

OP posts:
LordPercyPercy · 16/05/2024 11:05

The genocide was 8 months after the civil war ended with Arusha peace accords. It happened during a power vacuum after the president was assassinated. How do you not know this?

Yes because the peace accord was broken due to the president's assasination! If a peace accord is broken, then war has broken out again.
You're splitting insane hairs to somehow prove that this was different/less bad because.... an international definition? Lack of Israeli involvement?
Either way, the minimisation is pretty breathtaking.

Underthinker · 16/05/2024 11:04

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:52

No, I’m quoting the IHL definition of noninternationalised armed conflict. It’s not my opinion and you can’t say I am suggesting anything as I did not write it,
http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1697/defining-armed-conflict-in-international-humanitarian-law

Edited

You quoted an article explaining the difference between an armed conflict and a "mere disturbance" and thought to apply that to the Rwanda genocide. So yes you are suggesting Rwanda was a mere disturbance.

Regardless, Lineker didn't say this was the worst armed conflict he'd seen in his lifetime he said “I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen worse in my lifetime”.

thisiswheretheseagullfliesaway · 16/05/2024 11:02

Even if you agree with his comments on Gaza to describe the terrorist attack on 7th October as 'that Hamas thing' is disgusting. Over 1000 died horrifically innocent people injured physically and mentally, the bereaved whose life was changed forever was not a fucking "thing". None of this was their doing. They also deserve respect.

As always in situations of war and conflict the innocent suffer and the leaders on both sides sit back in complete safety, comfort and make money out of it.

swimsong · 16/05/2024 11:01

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 08:46

You are missing the point of the post.

Gary Lineker is paid by me (and every other licence payer) to be a football pundit not a political commentator.

He appears to minimise the Oct 7th attacks, which is disgraceful.

That's ridiculous. He's not been paid by you to do that interview. It's in his own time, he's expressing his own thoughts, on a subject that's nothing to with his BBC job, he's not a newsreader. Was he wearing a BBC badge? Is it OK with you if a BBC cameraman talks about Gaza down the pub? Would you be complaining if he trotted out "Of course, Israel's got the right to defend itself"?

MissyB1 · 16/05/2024 10:59

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:40

”These presenters will be banned from endorsing or criticising a political party, criticising the character of individual politicians in the UK, commenting on any issue that is a matter of political debate during an election period, and taking up an official role assisting or fundraising for campaigning groups.”

has he broken this? The next General Election date hasn’t been announced yet, so is this an election period?

There you go OP, loks like he hasn't broken his contract. So you can froth at the mouth all you like, doesnt mean he should be sacked.

Hoppinggreen · 16/05/2024 10:58

genuine question (with a question mark) for @onegrumpyoldwoman
Would you have the same opinion on Linekar et al expressing an opinion like this if he was completely pro Israel?
If so then fair enough

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:57

LordPercyPercy · 16/05/2024 10:53

You listed wars (armed conflicts) in your OP, and Gaza is a war.
Rwanda wasn’t a war.

Rwanda was literally a civil war. The genocide was an event that happened during that.
How can anyone not know this, why do you think the genocide happened?

The genocide was 8 months after the civil war ended with Arusha peace accords. It happened during a power vacuum after the president was assassinated. How do you not know this?

RabbitsRock · 16/05/2024 10:54

So it’s Gaza on Gaza!

LordPercyPercy · 16/05/2024 10:53

You listed wars (armed conflicts) in your OP, and Gaza is a war.
Rwanda wasn’t a war.

Rwanda was literally a civil war. The genocide was an event that happened during that.
How can anyone not know this, why do you think the genocide happened?

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:52

Underthinker · 16/05/2024 10:49

@IbisDancer
However, common article 3 also states that it does not apply to other forms of violence such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence. This abstract definition has made it difficult to make a clear distinction between a mere disturbance and an armed conflict,

What the actual fuck? Are you suggesting Rwanda was a "mere disturbance"? Are you sure it didn't escalate into a kerfuffle at times?

No, I’m quoting the IHL definition of noninternationalised armed conflict. It’s not my opinion and you can’t say I am suggesting anything as I did not write it,
http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1697/defining-armed-conflict-in-international-humanitarian-law

Defining Armed Conflict in International Humanitarian Law

International Humanitarian Law, based on the concepts of "jus ad bello," is defined to be the law of war. This means that the laws involved are meant to be active in a situation of an armed conflict or during war. However, just like international...

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1697/defining-armed-conflict-in-international-humanitarian-law

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:51

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 10:44

Does that definition make the situation any better?

What situation?
You listed wars (armed conflicts) in your OP, and Gaza is a war.
Rwanda wasn’t a war.

What critieria are you applying to say his comment is patently false and hyperbole since he did not claim the “war on Gaza” was the worst genocide he has seen, but rather worst war he has seen.

Underthinker · 16/05/2024 10:49

@IbisDancer
However, common article 3 also states that it does not apply to other forms of violence such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence. This abstract definition has made it difficult to make a clear distinction between a mere disturbance and an armed conflict,

What the actual fuck? Are you suggesting Rwanda was a "mere disturbance"? Are you sure it didn't escalate into a kerfuffle at times?

Auvergne63 · 16/05/2024 10:47

I was also born in the 60s.
Gary Lineker has the right to express his personal opinions outside of work. After all, we all are, as he wasn't speaking as a representative of the BBC, at the time.
I also don't understand why some posters, who disagree with his views, feel the need to call him an idiot. Why results to insults? Why post an article on him defecating on the pitch? It is irrelevant.
Do I believe what is happening in Gaza is worse than any other conflict? Statistically, yes but suffering, in my opinion, shouldn't be graded.
Tell a Palestinian mother that losing her child is not as bad that of a Syrian mother losing hers because of the numbers of Palestinian mothers in her position are not as high as the Syrians ones.

LordPercyPercy · 16/05/2024 10:47

Rwanda was in fact a civil war and the majority of the killings were carried out by Hutu soldiers, police, and militia.

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:46

“Non-international armed conflicts, according to common article 3 of the Geneva Convention, are ‘armed conflicts that are non-international in nature occurring in one of the High contracting parties’ (Geneva Convention, common article 3, 1949). This means that one of the parties involved is nongovernmental in nature. However, common article 3 also states that it does not apply to other forms of violence such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence. This abstract definition has made it difficult to make a clear distinction between a mere disturbance and an armed conflict, therefore relying heavily on the political will of states to classify the situation as an armed conflict. For a situation to be classified as a non-international armed conflict, it has to achieve two variables: first, the hostilities have to reach a certain minimum level of intensity (Vite, p 75; ICRC, 2008, p 3) and form in a collective character; and second, there has to be a level of organization of the parties (Vite, p 75)“

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 10:44

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:42

The definition of armed conflict excludes civilians.

Does that definition make the situation any better?

OP posts:
IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:42

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 10:39

@IbisDancer It wasn’t an armed conflict.

I'm not sure how you can say that because people didn't kill others with their bare hands.

People were killed mainly by rifle or machete.

The definition of armed conflict excludes civilians.

IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:40

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 10:35

No, but the BBC did put a special clause in it to try and curb him sounding off about matters unrelated to football..

(Which doesn't seem to have worked)

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/sep/28/bbc-updates-lineker-clause-to-restrict-presenters-airing-political-views

”These presenters will be banned from endorsing or criticising a political party, criticising the character of individual politicians in the UK, commenting on any issue that is a matter of political debate during an election period, and taking up an official role assisting or fundraising for campaigning groups.”

has he broken this? The next General Election date hasn’t been announced yet, so is this an election period?

onegrumpyoldwoman · 16/05/2024 10:39

@IbisDancer It wasn’t an armed conflict.

I'm not sure how you can say that because people didn't kill others with their bare hands.

People were killed mainly by rifle or machete.

OP posts:
Hatfullofwillow · 16/05/2024 10:36

It's the worst since Rwanda in terms of the kill rate. It's also clearly genocide. Obviously we're not seeing the worst of it as the IDF are killing journalists making it the most lethal "war" for journalists ever. Israeli airstrikes additionally damaged or destroyed an estimated 48 media facilities in Gaza.

OP posts:
IbisDancer · 16/05/2024 10:35

LordPercyPercy · 16/05/2024 10:23

He’s actually right. In terms of the extent of destruction in the timeframe it is worse than all of those conflicts and in terms of the concentration of civilian casualties

Rwanda had a death toll of almost a million civilians in three months. Lineker is no spring chicken, he was an adult when that took place.

Yes, but did he see it? And one important difference is that Rwanda wasn’t a genocide done by the state and its military. It was civilian neighbour attacking civilian neighbour. It wasn’t an armed conflict.

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