Terrible but not surprised - Jewish community under threat

Well said @Scirocco

Well said.

In relation to scrutiny and discussion of religious texts...

People should feel free and welcome to read, discuss, ask questions about and disagree with things, including religious texts. What people should also do, though, is respect that some texts have special significance to others, whether that is religious texts or secular documents of great importance (eg the US Constitution). We should all respect that significance and try to avoid mocking, misrepresentation/deliberate misinterpretation, etc., just as we would hope others would do with things important to us.

This can be especially important if the people potentially affected are vulnerable, discriminated against, etc. Misrepresentations of texts can be used to encourage distrust, fear and hatred towards groups.

This is getting wildly off topic, so I'll leave you to your fulminations. Cheerio! Have a lovely evening!

This is getting wildly off topic, so I'll leave you to your fulminations. Cheerio! Have a lovely evening!

You appear to dislike your post being scrutinised...

They can all be criticised and scrutinised. People are and should be free to say whatever they like about any of them.
You believe insulting people's beliefs by saying whatever you like about any of their holy (yes holy) books is acceptable? For example, if someone said they are a load of sh*te. In your opinion, that's ok? There is a difference between debating respectfully and being insulting.
I'm so glad I wasn't one of your pupils, being taught that any kind of scrutiny of a book demonstrates a lack of 'respect'. Just LOL.
Teaching RE is about teaching about the various faiths, their beliefs, how they worship and so on. I taught primary school children. Scrutinising beliefs was not in the curriculum and certainly not my job.
I think you would have liked my lessons. Ofsted rated them outstanding.
What an utterly bizarre question
I always told my pupils to ask questions. That is how you learn.
Do you genuinely think this is some kind of gotcha
I don't play games. I leave that to children.
I'm not Jewish, btw, as you seem to be assuming
Funny how both of us are making assumptions.

Clearly, as I'm sure you know perfectly well, I was responding to Auvergne's question 'is it OK to do the same to the Torah?' which was a response to my point 'People can describe it or talk about it or criticise it [a book] however the heck they like' which was itself a response to a PP's comment 'The language you used to describe the Quran [i.e. a book] is offensive.'

I'm afraid that I really, really, really don't care if 'language used to describe [a book] is 'offensive'. If you have an issue with something a PP said, take it up with them directly.

They can all be criticised and scrutinised. People are and should be free to say whatever they like about any of them. They're books.
But that's not what the poster did. They used the holy book of Islam to further demonstrate how much Muslims hate Jews.

Even in the holy book of Islam tropes about Jews are there about how they went against god for being money lenders who charged interest. (The Christian fuck up is seen as idolatry by claiming Jesus was of God but it's more approved of to marry a Christian than a Jew because they're not as bad).

So it's ok to do the same about the Torah then?

I mean obviously it is? Ditto the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, and any other 'holy' book you care to mention. They can all be criticised and scrutinised. People are and should be free to say whatever they like about any of them. They're books. I'm so glad I wasn't one of your pupils, being taught that any kind of scrutiny of a book demonstrates a lack of 'respect'. Just LOL.

What an utterly bizarre question. Do you genuinely think this is some kind of gotcha and I was going to reply 'oh no, of course you can't criticise the Torah, that's totally different'?

I'm not Jewish, btw, as you seem to be assuming.

I absolutely did NOT say that! Why would you take my words and twist them like that? It is absolutely NOT OK to generalise a people, whichever people they may be.

Nobody is shutting down or denying anyones experience. But to use a personal experience in order to judge an entire nationality or race or religion is prejudicial in itself. If you can't see that, that is also problematic.

Are you saying there isn't an issue with antisemitisim and attitudes towards Jewish people in many parts of the Middle East? Is having any sort of a discussion around it problematic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world

Ok. So it's ok to do the same about the Torah then?
I am an atheist and taught RE for 20 years. I taught my pupils that these books are holy to the believers as they convey the words of God and to show respect, even if you do not believe a word of it. I feel you missed that lesson.

Nobody is shutting down or denying anyones experience. But to use a personal experience in order to judge an entire nationality or race or religion is prejudicial in itself. If you can't see that, that is also problematic.

@swallowedAfly I'm sorry that you've had those experiences; as we're all aware, people can be very unpleasant and that unpleasantness can occur in any society.

There do seem to be some misunderstandings in your post though, in relation to how Islam views Judaism and Christianity. Islam, Christianity and Judaism are closely linked, and all people who believe in those faiths are considered People of the Book. Islam also does not condone rape, or hatred of others, or disrespect of secular laws and governments. Like many faiths, there are people who misinterpret, consciously or unconsciously, what is taught.

I am sorry that that has been your experience of Islam, and I hope that you can have more positive experiences in future.

I don't think it is helpful to discussions if someone's personal experience is shut down

I don't think it is helpful to discussions if one person's experience is being used to generalise about billions of people particular when it is in such a negative light.

I could come on here and talk frankly about my experience with Israelis I have worked and socialised with and claim that all Israelis are like that and think and act the same as them and I'd be flamed for it and no doubt my post deleted because I would be generalising and suggesting all Israelis think and act like those I know. It is not right and it is not fair and very telling the posters that have appeared here to support what was said.

Well the thread was deleted so clearly not everyone bought they whole head-tilty faux-innocent "I'm just asking a question" thing.

Anyway, my point is stones and glass houses and all that.

@malengring I asked a question about it and I also said I didn't believe what was in the video to be true. That's not the same as saying something offensive. I asked a question. You know something you do when you try learn about something that you don't know about? But either way if I was offensive by asking a question I apologise.

That doesn't take away from the fact that I and many others find the other post offensive.

You had a whole thread about it.

The language you used to describe the Quran is offensive.

The Quran is a book, not a person. People can describe it or talk about it or criticise it however the heck they like.

@malengring where on earth have I said anything offensive against the Torah?

Yeah like you've never said anything offensive about the Torah.

I don't think it is helpful to discussions if someone's personal experience is shut down because other posters don't like what that experience is.

@swallowedAfly

“Even in the holy book of Islam tropes about Jews are there about how they went against god for being money lenders who charged interest. (The Christian fuck up is seen as idolatry by claiming Jesus was of God but it's more approved of to marry a Christian than a Jew because they're not as bad).

When you're embedded into an arab community and trusted people talk more freely so you get to hear real attitudes and beliefs about various topics including what they think of Jews, homosexuals and the idea that a woman can be raped.”

As a Muslim, I find offence with your post specifically these two parts.

Although you would not realise it, it is Islamophobic.

The language you used to describe the Quran is offensive.

What you are essentially doing is creating hatred towards Islam among Jewish people as well as scaremongering. You’re allowing others to believe something about Islam that simply isn’t true. Islam isn’t about what you have described and your post shows a lot of ignorance.

There are many religions that are against homosexuality, not just Islam.

Rape is a grave sin in Islam and is never acceptable or encouraged. Of course, like in all religions, you have some that go rogue but that shouldn’t be used to tar everyone with the same brush as you well know.

“Islam requires Muslims to respect people of all faiths and this clearly includes followers of Judaism.
Jews are regarded as one of the groups of people described as ‘People of the Book’. This is a title given to two groups of people; the Jews and the Christians, both of which were given guidelines directly by their founders, Moses(as)and Jesus(as) respectively.
Furthermore Islam does not condemn any individual since everyone has an equal opportunity to earn God’s pleasure. So Jews also have the same opportunity and have been respected in Islam and Islamic communities.”

In conclusion, your post is insulting and Islamophobic. If you are unable to recognise this, you should educate yourself as residing in an Arab nation does not absolve you of Islamophobia.

@stomachamelon if you agree that their post is a brilliant post, I would also encourage you to educate yourself on Islam before supporting something that simply isn’t true.

"When you're embedded into an arab community and trusted people talk more freely so you get to hear real attitudes and beliefs about various topics including what they think of Jews, homosexuals and the idea that a woman can be raped. Men you've known for years, love and think are ace chilled people will suddenly really shock you with their level of contempt."

This comment us certainly islamophobic. Sadly, I can assure you that embedded male level of contempt towards women is not limited to any race or religion.