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Conflict in the Middle East

Terrible but not surprised - Jewish community under threat

689 replies

mids2019 · 14/05/2024 15:58

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx0331xxd7xo

It appears Jews are not safe in the UK at all.

Can we seriously look at the impact of anti semitism now?

Police at the home of one of the men arrested over an alleged terror plot

Three in court over alleged plan to attack Jewish community

Three men are accused of planning a gun attack on the Jewish community in North-West England.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx0331xxd7xo

OP posts:
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13
Limesodaagain · 01/06/2024 11:37

People looking for trouble rather than genuine protesters ? 😣

ALovelyCupOfNameChange · 01/06/2024 11:22

I know Finchley well.
what an odd odd place for a protest. It’s not exactly London. It’s can only be to upset and scare the British Jews

what do they think the average British Jewish person can do?
they have as much power over the Israeli government as the average British muslim

Hélène79 · 01/06/2024 11:05

I hope this doesn't come to anything but why are protestors specifically targeting Finchley today? This is a huge city, why Finchley?

https://x.com/MPSBarnet/status/1796561452901265688

x.com

https://x.com/MPSBarnet/status/1796561452901265688

Itsabeautufulday · 01/06/2024 10:21

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This can be seen in the UK too in some people that hatred handed down through some people. The level of increase in anti semitism in the UK shows people still repeat the tropes

Limesodaagain · 31/05/2024 23:33

Scirocco · 31/05/2024 22:15

As a counter-point to the above, it has not been my experience at all.

I have encountered people with a range of views on a range of issues. Some people are lovely. Some people, well, aren't. Just like every other population. But at no point have I encountered universal antisemitism or other hatred against another group.

Maybe other posters have been unfortunate and been surrounded by unpleasant people. Those people's views are not representative of Islam, any more than I could say the EDL's views are representative of Christianity.

I haven’t encountered extremist views from Muslims or Jews . The ones I encounter at work are not extremist in the slightest. I have encountered extreme religious views in Northern Ireland- it tends to be linked to extreme political views ( as @YaMuvva has said ) in my experience.

Limesodaagain · 31/05/2024 23:30

YaMuvva · 31/05/2024 22:47

Arguments centering around food too. Pickles, in my own personal experience 😂

I’m definitely a pickle lover 😊

Dulra · 31/05/2024 23:22

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Very passive aggressive there well done

Limesodaagain · 31/05/2024 23:19

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Scirocco · 31/05/2024 22:49

YaMuvva · 31/05/2024 22:47

Arguments centering around food too. Pickles, in my own personal experience 😂

Ah, a controversial topic in our house. I'm very much not a pickle fan, but DH would pickle anything.

YaMuvva · 31/05/2024 22:47

Scirocco · 31/05/2024 22:44

Soooo much food.

Arguments centering around food too. Pickles, in my own personal experience 😂

Scirocco · 31/05/2024 22:44

YaMuvva · 31/05/2024 22:23

Personally as a Jewish woman - the far right and far left worry me FAR more than any Muslim.

My nanna had Muslim friends and always told me that Jews and Muslims have far more in common than any two other religions - largely because so many Centre their identity on bellowing “Here, have some more food” 🤣🤣

Soooo much food.

YaMuvva · 31/05/2024 22:23

Personally as a Jewish woman - the far right and far left worry me FAR more than any Muslim.

My nanna had Muslim friends and always told me that Jews and Muslims have far more in common than any two other religions - largely because so many Centre their identity on bellowing “Here, have some more food” 🤣🤣

Dulra · 31/05/2024 22:20

Scirocco · 31/05/2024 22:15

As a counter-point to the above, it has not been my experience at all.

I have encountered people with a range of views on a range of issues. Some people are lovely. Some people, well, aren't. Just like every other population. But at no point have I encountered universal antisemitism or other hatred against another group.

Maybe other posters have been unfortunate and been surrounded by unpleasant people. Those people's views are not representative of Islam, any more than I could say the EDL's views are representative of Christianity.

Those people's views are not representative of Islam,

It's really depressing that you have to point this out

Scirocco · 31/05/2024 22:15

As a counter-point to the above, it has not been my experience at all.

I have encountered people with a range of views on a range of issues. Some people are lovely. Some people, well, aren't. Just like every other population. But at no point have I encountered universal antisemitism or other hatred against another group.

Maybe other posters have been unfortunate and been surrounded by unpleasant people. Those people's views are not representative of Islam, any more than I could say the EDL's views are representative of Christianity.

Dulra · 31/05/2024 22:05

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So we've moved on to stereotyping all Muslims, great.....

OverfilledBookcase · 31/05/2024 21:55

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swallowedAfly · 31/05/2024 20:59

HelenHen · 31/05/2024 12:41

I'm really sorry you have experienced all of that. Though I have no doubt that many Palestinians can relate to what you said and have experienced the same hatred and dehumanisation.

None of the hatred on either side justifies any of the violence from either side.

By the way you don't need to be sorry for my experiences and they weren't traumatic or anything. Not sure why you said that.

I lived years in the culture and will move back there once free to do so and spend a good few months a year there even now.

I'm an anthropologist originally hence going to live there in the first place to do fieldwork. Cultural differences are par for the course and I understand the massive impact culture and socialisation has on people. I also clearly love living in an arab country and a ton of things about the culture and character of the people on the whole or I wouldn't spend so much time in that region and have invested there.

I sat and observed a houthi missile land in the sea in the gulf of aqaba this year and we had another exploded in mid air that was so loud that everyone assumed a gas cylinder had gone off outside their house wherever they were in town.

On the other hand you couldn't pay me to live in Israel - I don't like it there or feel comfortable for my own reasons - there are many countries I don't like being in including this one.

I'm sure plenty of Palestinians will have felt dehumanised and hated in Israel I also have Palestinian friends including Gazans who have shared their experiences and the way they shaped them with me.

I was talking about the pretence that there isn't hatred towards Jews in the Middle East not that Israel has no blood on their hands.

This is a region and these are cultures that I have real experience of. This isn't about you or 'all' muslims. It is about a region. Do you think that Iran is some random outlier with it's parliament standing up and cheering at Oct 7th and chanting death to Israel, death to Jews? I just don't get the denial

swallowedAfly · 31/05/2024 19:09

So have you lived in any arab muslim countries? And would you like to explain how talking about a cultural phenomena is Islamophobic?

HelenHen · 31/05/2024 19:05

swallowedAfly · 31/05/2024 18:46

It is interesting to see though that an observation about a common regional attitude towards certain groups has caused more outrage and offense than people literally planning to murder Jews in England.

Once more explicitly: I'm not saying that all Muslims hate Jews. I am saying that I have witnessed a widespread hate towards Jews in parts of the Middle East and North Africa. Bear in mind many people there are very selective about which bits of their mother religion they observe or care about and are more culturally Muslim than religiously so. Much like a lot of Jews see themselves as ethnically Jewish but lead secular lives.

If you live in a country which is very monoreligious and controlling though you have to be seen to be going to mosque on a Friday and fasting in public and calling yourself a Muslim even if it never touches your conscience or how you treat people or what you drink, smoke or screw in private.

When I talk about Muslims in the context I have I'm talking about cultural Muslims not devout Muslims trying to take a broad view of the wider teachings and values of their religion. If you're comparing what I say about these things with your own experience of being a voluntarily devout follower of Islam in a nation that doesn't compel you and has a very different culture and broader education and wider exposure to diversity then you are comparing apples and oranges and are bound to be offended.

I really wish you'd stop. Your posts are completely Islamophobic, and the fact that you keep forcing the issue, and you're so confident in your belief, is really rather unsettling.

swallowedAfly · 31/05/2024 18:46

It is interesting to see though that an observation about a common regional attitude towards certain groups has caused more outrage and offense than people literally planning to murder Jews in England.

Once more explicitly: I'm not saying that all Muslims hate Jews. I am saying that I have witnessed a widespread hate towards Jews in parts of the Middle East and North Africa. Bear in mind many people there are very selective about which bits of their mother religion they observe or care about and are more culturally Muslim than religiously so. Much like a lot of Jews see themselves as ethnically Jewish but lead secular lives.

If you live in a country which is very monoreligious and controlling though you have to be seen to be going to mosque on a Friday and fasting in public and calling yourself a Muslim even if it never touches your conscience or how you treat people or what you drink, smoke or screw in private.

When I talk about Muslims in the context I have I'm talking about cultural Muslims not devout Muslims trying to take a broad view of the wider teachings and values of their religion. If you're comparing what I say about these things with your own experience of being a voluntarily devout follower of Islam in a nation that doesn't compel you and has a very different culture and broader education and wider exposure to diversity then you are comparing apples and oranges and are bound to be offended.

swallowedAfly · 31/05/2024 18:35

Misrepresentations of texts can be used to encourage distrust, fear and hatred towards groups

Well exactly my point! In the case I was discussing seeds in the Koran are misinterpreted or not tempered by wider values taught in the text and are used to encourage distrust, fear and hatred towards Jews.

I am discussing my experience in specific nations which unsurprisingly are unlikely to match the experiences of someone on the other side of the world just because they share the same basis of their religion. Different cultures and sociopolitical systems interpret things differently. Including religious texts. For example I see nothing in the life and teachings of Jesus that points to subjugating women or banning people's personal choices but that doesn't mean that right wing conservative Christians in America don't interpret the New Testament and use it to justify just that.

swallowedAfly · 31/05/2024 18:24

anotherlevel · 31/05/2024 13:30

@swallowedAfly

“Even in the holy book of Islam tropes about Jews are there about how they went against god for being money lenders who charged interest. (The Christian fuck up is seen as idolatry by claiming Jesus was of God but it's more approved of to marry a Christian than a Jew because they're not as bad).

When you're embedded into an arab community and trusted people talk more freely so you get to hear real attitudes and beliefs about various topics including what they think of Jews, homosexuals and the idea that a woman can be raped.”

As a Muslim, I find offence with your post specifically these two parts.

Although you would not realise it, it is Islamophobic.

The language you used to describe the Quran is offensive.

What you are essentially doing is creating hatred towards Islam among Jewish people as well as scaremongering. You’re allowing others to believe something about Islam that simply isn’t true. Islam isn’t about what you have described and your post shows a lot of ignorance.

There are many religions that are against homosexuality, not just Islam.

Rape is a grave sin in Islam and is never acceptable or encouraged. Of course, like in all religions, you have some that go rogue but that shouldn’t be used to tar everyone with the same brush as you well know.

“Islam requires Muslims to respect people of all faiths and this clearly includes followers of Judaism.
Jews are regarded as one of the groups of people described as ‘People of the Book’. This is a title given to two groups of people; the Jews and the Christians, both of which were given guidelines directly by their founders, Moses(as)and Jesus(as) respectively.
Furthermore Islam does not condemn any individual since everyone has an equal opportunity to earn God’s pleasure. So Jews also have the same opportunity and have been respected in Islam and Islamic communities.”

In conclusion, your post is insulting and Islamophobic. If you are unable to recognise this, you should educate yourself as residing in an Arab nation does not absolve you of Islamophobia.

@stomachamelon if you agree that their post is a brilliant post, I would also encourage you to educate yourself on Islam before supporting something that simply isn’t true.

Edited

I am talking about a cultural and social phenomena and an interpretation of Islam that you may well not be in alignment with. Have you lived in any arab Muslim nations? I actually haven't said anything about what Islam means or how people should interpret Islam.

All religions critique other religions and have elitist views about their own faith. Why would Muslims be immune to that? And yes all cultures and religions have misogyny but few areas of the world are governed and educated by religious leaders and a narrow interpretation of religious texts.

I am predominantly talking about culture and education within specific nations not some ultimate truth of what a religion is or how it is interpreted in different geographical locations.

Scirocco · 31/05/2024 17:25

Silchester · 31/05/2024 17:13

I agree that that is the polite approach @Scirocco but I also think satire and mockery are important elements of free speech and shouldn’t be banned.

At no point did I suggest things should be banned.

People are free to be insulting of things. Other people are free to tell them that they are being offensive.

In general terms, if we all try to treat others how we would want to be treated, there'd be a lot less grief in the world.

Silchester · 31/05/2024 17:15

I also think sometimes generalisations are essential for being able to talk about trends or phenomena. If there is a cultural issue with anti-semitism in some middle-eastern cultures, we have to be able to say so.

Silchester · 31/05/2024 17:13

I agree that that is the polite approach @Scirocco but I also think satire and mockery are important elements of free speech and shouldn’t be banned.

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