Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

Fair engough

Exactly one of the many reasons that Israel has to screen lorries full of aid as best as they can whilst under attack at humanitarian crossings, IE not just checking for arms. missile, mortar parts etc but bags labelled as flour/food but full of fertilizer and sugar that are used to first missiles at Israeli towns and cities as well as IDF that is checking humanitarian aid

So you’re trying to justify the attacks on a safe zone then.
The outcome of last night’s attack was entirely foreseeable. Children burnt in tents. The nylon melting into their flesh. No hospital. No burns unit. A shortage painkillers.

They don't need tanker loads of diesel or similar to fire missiles.

Hospitals need it in order to function, though.

The majority of missiles used by Hamas don't use the same fuel as people are needing to run hospitals, etc.

Qassam rockets, for example, use a solid fuel made from sugar and fertiliser.

so its ok to attack and kill the hand that feeds you, is it?????

Where does Hams get the tanker loads of fuel to fire short range and long range missiles whilst belathing "hospitals have little fuel left for generators"

What are you trying to prove??

Reuters is more correct than most - Rafah, the Hams lot stopped the humanitarian aid by firing missiles, rockets, mortars etc at the IDF who were passing through humanitarian aid by checking it

But that is not what Reuters said. They said:

“Hamas' armed wing said it fired rockets at an Israeli army base by the crossing, but did not confirm where it fired them from. Hamas media quoted a source close to the group as saying the commercial crossing was not the target.”

A base, by the crossing. Not soldiers in the middle of checking Humanitarian aid at the crossing like you said.

Haaretz said nothing about soldiers checking H aid vehicles at the crossing:

“IDF Names Four Soldiers Killed in Rocket Barrage From GazaThe four soldiers, Tal Shavit, Ruben Marc Mordechai Assouline, Ido Testa, and Michael Ruzal were guarding equipment the army has deployed ahead of its planned operation in Rafah. Nine more soldiers were wounded in the attack by Hamas”

Do you understand the concept that the story developed - the Reuters report was the first but then more information became available and other agencies published updated articles which were somewhat different, bud

Reuters is more correct than most - Rafah, the Hams lot stopped the humanitarian aid by firing missiles, rockets, mortars etc at the IDF who were passing through humanitarian aid by checking it

Some bleat on about "lack of fuel" - where does hams get the thousands of gallings of fuel for these missiles??? Hamas again the other day fired a mass of long-range missiles aimed at cities in Israel - you'd need three tanker loads of fuel for those never mind the daily firing of smaller ones

There are many safe zones outside Rafah

And more about that which I remembered after seeing the facts in Haaretz and posting about it 6th May:

“I was wondering if the Hamas attack at the Kerem Shalom crossing was intended as an attack on the humanitarian aid entrance, or just an attack to cause trouble, as both seemed odd. Now I have seen this in Haaretz which suggests Hamas were aiming at the Israeli military equipment there planned for use in the likely Israeli Rafah attack.”

“IDF Names Four Soldiers Killed in Rocket Barrage From GazaThe four soldiers, Tal Shavit, Ruben Marc Mordechai Assouline, Ido Testa, and Michael Ruzal were guarding equipment the army has deployed ahead of its planned operation in Rafah. Nine more soldiers were wounded in the attack by Hamas”
www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-05/ty-article/.premium/idf-names-three-soldiers-killed-in-mortar-barrage-from-gaza/0000018f-4a7b-d91a-a5af-ebffec900000

This was a completely, tragic loss of those young Israeli soldiers lives, but unlike the civilians in Tel Aviv Hamas has targeted with rockets, here their target was IDF soldiers gathering and equipping to attack Rafah.

That is right. It was not the crossing.

The target was the army base:
Hamas' armed wing said it fired rockets at an Israeli army base by the crossing, but did not confirm where it fired them from. Hamas media quoted a source close to the group as saying the commercial crossing was not the target.

Well, there is quite a bit of evidence that the 'safe zones' might not actually be that safe. For example, the dead bodies from last night's bombing and the resulting fire. The missiles fired there were Israeli missiles. Fired at an area the Israeli forces had a) designated a humanitarian area and b) instructed displaced people to go to.

Reuters is incorrect, the rockets landed in the Kerem shalom area near the crossing, but not on the crossing. One home in Kerem Shalom kibbutz was damaged, but no Israeli civilians were killed or injured because they have been evacuated.

The Kerem Shalom crossing was not the target and was not hit.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-799923

Yes, I saw the estimate too and how it mentioned that the high civilian, especially child, death toll likely meant thousands of new recruits replacing the ones killed.

I don’t know what to think about a US think tank estimate though because it is in the US interest to publish numbers that make it look like Israel really really needs to be levelling Rafah while re-attacking North and Central Gaza at the same time. By saying only 30-35% killed, it is implied that close to 70% of Hamas are in Rafah.

Don't be ridiculous, are you saying there are no safe zones? It is hamas firing the rockets at civilians and the humanitarian crossing and that is a fact

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-claims-responsibility-attack-israel-gaza-border-crossing-casualties-2024-05-05/

Posted upthread that US intelligence estimate only 30-35% of Hamas fighters have been killed but thousands more recruited - so who knows how many

No one really knows except perhaps Hamas who are keeping silent and IDF who apparently isn’t counting the number of Hamas they kill.

Yes risk would have been a better word than threat to use

The three areas are miles apart. Look at a map why don’t you.

The soldiers killed were 3.6km miles outside Gaza inside Israel near the Kerem Shalom kibbutz. The Kerem Shalom crossing was then closed in response, but there was no attack on the crossing itself by Hamas. Violent settlers had blocked it and stormed it previously.

The rockets launched by Hamas were launched from Eastern Rafah- which is a combat zone. There have been sporadic launches of rockets from Gaza during the entire war.

The airstrike was in western Rafah in a designated evacuation safe zone on what are clearly tents for IDPs. There is no proof that the Hamas individuals named by IDF were present or injured or killed in the airstrike. It would be nice if IDF would let UN investigators in or share their intelligence, as that would be good proof.

That isn’t a threat. That is a realistic observation of how war crimes can and do derail peace talks.

I saw the footage before it was blurred.
Yes, there was one decapitated baby in it. Approx 9-11 mos old.

That graph of children’s deaths is extraordinary and shocking to see laid out.

Do you know how many Hamas fighters have been actually been killed so far? I cannot find this. Recently I heard an Israeli spokesperson mention 10,000 but that seems so few after all this time and so high a cost in the destruction of Palestine and its people ( as there were 30,000 or more at the e outset).

That is indeed how hostage exchanges work, and it's horrible.

The Israeli government established its answer to the question of whether a Palestinian life is of equal value to an Israeli life. Their answer is that they consider an Israeli life to be worth more. So, the 'exchange rate' in hostage negotiations frequently reflects that.

This website lays it out starkly too. 2024 will be horrendous.

Counting the Kids - Israel and Palestine

So you don't understand what a 'safe' or 'humanitarian' zone is, then. Might want to find out before claiming that it's safe for people to go to them or that it's ok to blow them up.

Ratios of killed Israelis to Palestinians over the last decades

Usual ratio 1:23
Current ratio 1:27ish