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Conflict in the Middle East

Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

986 replies

TwilightSkies · 06/05/2024 09:10

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

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50
eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:21

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:15

@ConnieCounter ,

‘And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.’

I don’t want you to think I am blasé, because I am not. I spent ten years of my life as a teacher and taught children of all colours, faiths and denominations. Every life is precious and every death of an innocent person is a tragedy.

But…..human beings fight wars and, in every war, innocent blood is spilled.

Israel defending herself is not, per se, wrong. But Israel does need to stick to the internationally agreed rules of law and, where she doesn’t, the people responsible need to be held to account.

But that isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for Hamas. They need to be dismantled and the senior members need to personally pay the price for what they did.

Are you seriously going to use that argument. It sounds like I have black and Asian friends so I can say what I want.

keenforhelp · 07/05/2024 13:19

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:06

Bud - you having a naffing larf??
From the Rafah crossing, you just take one step and you are into Egypt
Why have the not moved to Egypt or the other three sectors of Rafah that the IDF have not instructed to evacuate???

I hope Hamas leaders are taken out very soon and hostages are released. Then the settlers in west bank are removed by the IDF.. The people of Israel could live without daily fears of rocket attacks, shootings, knifings, attacks etc. And the people of Gaza could live their lives

Hamas trousered the billions given by the west and Arab nations and the people of Gaza suffer because of that

On telly a while back - a few Gazanians were openly condemning Hamas about jobs for their own families whilst ordinary people of Gaza struggled - where did the billions go - you know the answer

Telling it like it is to be sure.

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:18

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:15

@ConnieCounter ,

‘And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.’

I don’t want you to think I am blasé, because I am not. I spent ten years of my life as a teacher and taught children of all colours, faiths and denominations. Every life is precious and every death of an innocent person is a tragedy.

But…..human beings fight wars and, in every war, innocent blood is spilled.

Israel defending herself is not, per se, wrong. But Israel does need to stick to the internationally agreed rules of law and, where she doesn’t, the people responsible need to be held to account.

But that isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for Hamas. They need to be dismantled and the senior members need to personally pay the price for what they did.

But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?

It's not a war when it's one side bombarding a defenceless civilian population. Gazans don't have an army to protect them. They have nothing.

Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:16

The only way that large numbers of refugees from Gaza are going to leave and enter Egypt is if the IDF 'accidently' destroy enough of the border wall/fence

Can't imagine Egypt being happy with that

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:15

@ConnieCounter ,

‘And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.’

I don’t want you to think I am blasé, because I am not. I spent ten years of my life as a teacher and taught children of all colours, faiths and denominations. Every life is precious and every death of an innocent person is a tragedy.

But…..human beings fight wars and, in every war, innocent blood is spilled.

Israel defending herself is not, per se, wrong. But Israel does need to stick to the internationally agreed rules of law and, where she doesn’t, the people responsible need to be held to account.

But that isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for Hamas. They need to be dismantled and the senior members need to personally pay the price for what they did.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:12

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

YES they will and that is another fact

FFS it’s documented and well known Israel doesn’t allow it. The Palestinians that fled in 1975 have not been able to return.

Just because you say it, doesn’t mean it will happen.

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 13:12

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:06

Bud - you having a naffing larf??
From the Rafah crossing, you just take one step and you are into Egypt
Why have the not moved to Egypt or the other three sectors of Rafah that the IDF have not instructed to evacuate???

I hope Hamas leaders are taken out very soon and hostages are released. Then the settlers in west bank are removed by the IDF.. The people of Israel could live without daily fears of rocket attacks, shootings, knifings, attacks etc. And the people of Gaza could live their lives

Hamas trousered the billions given by the west and Arab nations and the people of Gaza suffer because of that

On telly a while back - a few Gazanians were openly condemning Hamas about jobs for their own families whilst ordinary people of Gaza struggled - where did the billions go - you know the answer

If you follow the news, you may have seen several slight issues with the idea of just walking through the Rafah crossing.

For example, it's currently under Israeli control.

For example, the Egyptians aren't accepting significant numbers of refugees through it.

So, it's going to be a bit difficult for people to take that step.

EasterIssland · 07/05/2024 13:11

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

YES they will and that is another fact

Not sure how can you be so secured when this hasn’t happened in the past. Fact

ps. Just because you write fact it doesn’t mean it’s fact

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:11

Umm Israel doesn’t allow Palestinians to return. It’s well documented.

The border between Israel and Egypt is militarised. There is no crossing in and out like you put it.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

EasterIssland · 07/05/2024 13:07

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

——

will Israel allow them returning? It’s not allowed returning to previous Palestinians that have had to leave Gaza before. What makes you think they’ll allow it this time

Edited

YES they will and that is another fact

EasterIssland · 07/05/2024 13:07

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:58

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

——

will Israel allow them returning? It’s not allowed returning to previous Palestinians that have had to leave Gaza before. What makes you think they’ll allow it this time

Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:06

On the other side of the Gaza-Egypt border there is a town called Rafah City where more than 80000 Gazan refugees have been waiting 40 years to return to Gaza - so don't personally hold any hope that any refugees in 2024 will be able to return home after a few months sheltering in Egypt

.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:06

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 13:00

How do you propose people move to Egypt? Teleportation?

And also, no, they can't easily move back if they leave. Once the land is fully re-occupied, it's unlikely to be returned to them.

Bud - you having a naffing larf??
From the Rafah crossing, you just take one step and you are into Egypt
Why have the not moved to Egypt or the other three sectors of Rafah that the IDF have not instructed to evacuate???

I hope Hamas leaders are taken out very soon and hostages are released. Then the settlers in west bank are removed by the IDF.. The people of Israel could live without daily fears of rocket attacks, shootings, knifings, attacks etc. And the people of Gaza could live their lives

Hamas trousered the billions given by the west and Arab nations and the people of Gaza suffer because of that

On telly a while back - a few Gazanians were openly condemning Hamas about jobs for their own families whilst ordinary people of Gaza struggled - where did the billions go - you know the answer

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:06

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 12:53

It is totally wrong to make an equivalence between the IDF/Israeli government and Hamas.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation with the unashamed aim of destroying all Jews.

‘This is evident in their founding charter, which cites the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion forgery as “proof” of a Zionist plot to control the world. It remains true after Hamas released a new charter in 2017, which essentially simply swapped the word “Jew” out and replaced it with “Zionist” while repeating antisemitic tropes.

Hamas abolished democracy in Gaza:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

The above is a good article explaining why Hamas have always been a bad actor in Gaza.

The October attack wasn’t against a military target which incurred ‘collateral damage’, it was the purposeful planned raping, killing and hostage taking of civilians of all ages, many of whom were ‘peaceniks’.

As for Israel, they are a democratic nation and actually have Arab members of parliament. The idea of a Jewish politician within Hamas is just laughable.

Also, regardless of the background (Al Qaeda also thought they were fighting injustice on 9/11) no nation state on earth could have expected not to respond harshly to what happened on October 7th. You will also notice how quiet the Arab World was (ex Iran) in criticising Israel.

Finally, if Israel have a legitimate war aim of eliminating Hamas as a fighting force, they can’t just let them hang out in Rafah until such time as peace is agreed and then they can just reform and fight another day. It just isn’t realistic.

OTOH, I recognise Israel have some serious problems at the moment.

They have an illegitimate government and need elections as a matter of urgency. Also Netanyahu needs to face the criminal charges he is up against in a court.

They did, at least at the beginning of the war, use starvation and a denial of basic human rights (water and medical treatment) as a way of mass punishment, which is a war crime. However, they have recently toned this down (admittedly due to American pressure)

Israel is becoming increasingly a religious state and, with it, racism is increasing. The settlers are behaving disgracefully and the settlements should be dismantled.

Ultimately though, what Israel is these days will be decided after the fighting, not during it. If Netanyahu goes, they accept a two state solution and come to a compromise over the illegal settlements, then I will remain a Zionist (as much as believing the Jews have a right to a state and to be able to live safely within it). If not, I will have to distance myself and say ‘not in my name’.

But, right now, Hamas need to pay the price for their terrorist crime.

And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.

NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 07/05/2024 13:02

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:58

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

How can they move to Egypt?
Israel has taken control of the area inside the Rafah gate.

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 13:02

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:01

Again I blame Hamas as they knew what the reaction would be to their slaughter of men, women and children in their homes as they slept.

I again blame Hamas for using their people as hostages to use them as human shields.

I again blame Hamas for not realising the hostages and handing over those responsible for the 7th Oct attacks

So when Israel commits horrible acts, nobody should say anything?

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:01

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 12:57

So you're standing by your answer being 'Yes' to: 'So when Hamas did it, it was bad, but when Israel does it, nobody should say anything?' ?

Again I blame Hamas as they knew what the reaction would be to their slaughter of men, women and children in their homes as they slept.

I again blame Hamas for using their people as hostages to use them as human shields.

I again blame Hamas for not realising the hostages and handing over those responsible for the 7th Oct attacks

keenforhelp · 07/05/2024 13:00

TwilightSkies · 07/05/2024 12:54

The main players of Oct 7th that remain in Gaza have not been caught and rockets have been fired from humanitarian areas. Therefore Hamas has a presence in Rafah.

They will never be caught. Israel has no interest in actually catching them. It would rather slaughter the entire population of Gaza because they view Palestinians as less than, and continue to use ‘Hamas’ and hostages as an excuse.
Why are Israeli hostages so much more valuable to you than the tens of thousands of Palestinian ones? Why is one life worth more than another to you?

"They will never be caught. Israel has no interest in actually catching them. It would rather slaughter the entire population of Gaza because they view Palestinians as less than, and continue to use ‘Hamas’ and hostages as an excuse."

Please state your creditable and trustworthy source for this assertion.

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 13:00

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:58

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

How do you propose people move to Egypt? Teleportation?

And also, no, they can't easily move back if they leave. Once the land is fully re-occupied, it's unlikely to be returned to them.

NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 07/05/2024 13:00

If Israel does not want to negotiate a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, then hostages have become redundant. It is longer worth the effort of looking after them. Not a desirable outcome.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:58

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 12:57

And, on a slightly different note, I can see the way social media is polarising this debate.

I speak to two mates about this, one very pro Israel and one very anti, and all the ‘evidence’ seems to come from social media feeds. You would believe they were viewing two totally separate conflicts.

In the interests of humanity and the hope of getting a proper solution, I think it is important to get off social media (I know I am being a bit of a hypocrite here, although thankfully MN doesn’t have a ‘news’ feed) and read sources from both sides.

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 12:57

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:52

The facts are clear - Hamas attacked cicillian men, women, children and babies and the rest is history

No country in the world would have stood idly by until the culprits were captured or eradicated

So you're standing by your answer being 'Yes' to: 'So when Hamas did it, it was bad, but when Israel does it, nobody should say anything?' ?

TwilightSkies · 07/05/2024 12:54

The main players of Oct 7th that remain in Gaza have not been caught and rockets have been fired from humanitarian areas. Therefore Hamas has a presence in Rafah.

They will never be caught. Israel has no interest in actually catching them. It would rather slaughter the entire population of Gaza because they view Palestinians as less than, and continue to use ‘Hamas’ and hostages as an excuse.
Why are Israeli hostages so much more valuable to you than the tens of thousands of Palestinian ones? Why is one life worth more than another to you?

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