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Conflict in the Middle East

Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

986 replies

TwilightSkies · 06/05/2024 09:10

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

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Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 14:01

@ConnieCounter ,

I didn’t post it as the unvarnished truth, did I? In fact I qualified it. I do think it sad that you didn’t read it though. I try and carefully read both sides, even though some things make me feel uncomfortable.

But what is your expertise in urban warfare and what sources are you using for the ‘truth’. Are they totally factual and unbiased?

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 14:00

Also, I'm sure this point was made earlier in the thread but it's worth repeating. When Iran attacked Israel people were concerned and spoke with such respect about those who may be affected.

The lack of respect for those who are stuck in Rafah while the place is attacked by Israel on this thread is actually turning my stomach. People are dying - children, women - people I would have thought "mums" would have some compassion for. But there's no compassion from some posters. Only goading, glib comments, whataboutery, lies.

If you can't show respect for those who are living in Rafah you don't have to post here. Twitter exists.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:59

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EasterIssland · 07/05/2024 13:58

NecessaryNC24 · 07/05/2024 13:49

Does anyone give a shit about Sudan ? Just curious.

I was missing the Sudan card in this thread. It’s taken a while to appear. @NecessaryNC24 this is the thread about rafah. It’s been repeated multiple times that if you want to talk about other conflicts then open a thread and then people will talk about it.

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:55

NecessaryNC24 · 07/05/2024 13:49

Does anyone give a shit about Sudan ? Just curious.

This is a thread about the ongoing massacre of people in Rafah. Show some respect. If you have something to say about a different conflict start a thread about it and stop goading us here. This situation is very upsetting for those of us who care about Palestinian people.

Auvergne63 · 07/05/2024 13:52

NecessaryNC24 · 07/05/2024 13:49

Does anyone give a shit about Sudan ? Just curious.

I do. Do you?

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:52

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:41

Thanks. The first paragraph shows that he swallows IDF propaganda hook, line and sinker so I couldn't stomach reading the rest. This guy thinks that the Al Shifa massacre was reasonable and that the IDF brought doctors to help patients! I mean, the IDF went in and killed doctors and patients. Maybe he was confused.

Also this is his pinned tweet: https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1763220964752380329?t=lh1E0N76f9FjSOQdbe83Ig&s=19

He's not a neutral actor.

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1763220964752380329?s=19&t=lh1E0N76f9FjSOQdbe83Ig

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:51

NecessaryNC24 · 07/05/2024 13:49

Does anyone give a shit about Sudan ? Just curious.

Make a thread and find out. Why post that here?

quantumbutterfly · 07/05/2024 13:51

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:41

Very interesting article. Thanks.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:50

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:47

@eomeoni ,

‘Also all racists say I am not racist.’

No interest in getting into ad hominem mud slinging with you. If you attack the person rather than the argument, you know you have lost the argument.

It is also unusual to call a stranger from a minority group a racist without actually citing anything they have said which is racist.

But you clearly think you know my thoughts better than I know my own, so there you go…..

Its the way you started your argument that I take offence to. Just because you have taught people from different ethnic backgrounds doesn’t give you a right to justify a genocide.

Also if you read further up I have replied to your argument citing Haaretz and CNN. I also have other verifiable sources. Where are your sources?

NecessaryNC24 · 07/05/2024 13:49

Does anyone give a shit about Sudan ? Just curious.

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:47

@eomeoni ,

‘Also all racists say I am not racist.’

No interest in getting into ad hominem mud slinging with you. If you attack the person rather than the argument, you know you have lost the argument.

It is also unusual to call a stranger from a minority group a racist without actually citing anything they have said which is racist.

But you clearly think you know my thoughts better than I know my own, so there you go…..

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:44

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eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:43

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:32

@ConnieCounter ,

‘But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?’

Destroying infrastructure isn’t a war crime if the purpose is to get to your enemy. It is , although I hate the term, ‘collateral damage’ and happens in every single war. The question is whether there is too much.

I have been sent articles by military historians saying that the IDF is fighting one of the most targeted and merciful wars given the nature of the terrain and enemy (urban theatre and Hamas using civilians as human shields). They cite the ratio of military to civilian dead and compare it to past battles.

I am not a military expert and I think some of the data they use is dodgy. But, equally, looking at pictures and saying Israel has done a terrible thing denies it true analysis or historical comparison.

My personal opinion (and this is total speculation) is that Israel tried to run a careful and targeted campaign but that some units have committed war crimes and deliberately targeted civilians. I can’t know any of this, though, and nor can anyone on this thread.

As to the lack of food and fuel at the beginning (I think it is getting better now), that does look like a war crime and it should be properly investigated.

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

So you are going to compare the Gaza conflict to ones from other parts of the world where two military powers were fighting. Umm no there is no comparison.

The technological advancements in military warfare has improved greatly. What Israel is doing is dropping dumb bombs was reported by CNN.

Isreal is using AI to target houses reported in Haaretz. Even if there is one person in an entire complex which is part of Hamas Israel will bomb the complex killing many innocent people.

Nctodayjan24 · 07/05/2024 13:43

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

@Newbutoldfather
You ate joking aren't you with this comment. Biden and Us administration answer to Israel and AIPAC.

They will also never cut off their market for weapons.

Auvergne63 · 07/05/2024 13:42

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

YES they will and that is another fact

Please check the definitions of opinion and fact. You appear to confuse the two.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:38

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ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:37

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:32

@ConnieCounter ,

‘But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?’

Destroying infrastructure isn’t a war crime if the purpose is to get to your enemy. It is , although I hate the term, ‘collateral damage’ and happens in every single war. The question is whether there is too much.

I have been sent articles by military historians saying that the IDF is fighting one of the most targeted and merciful wars given the nature of the terrain and enemy (urban theatre and Hamas using civilians as human shields). They cite the ratio of military to civilian dead and compare it to past battles.

I am not a military expert and I think some of the data they use is dodgy. But, equally, looking at pictures and saying Israel has done a terrible thing denies it true analysis or historical comparison.

My personal opinion (and this is total speculation) is that Israel tried to run a careful and targeted campaign but that some units have committed war crimes and deliberately targeted civilians. I can’t know any of this, though, and nor can anyone on this thread.

As to the lack of food and fuel at the beginning (I think it is getting better now), that does look like a war crime and it should be properly investigated.

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

Well unless you're going to give me sources I can't comment on your pals' opinions that Israel is doing a great and super careful job.

I disagree with your opinion that they've been careful and targeted in the strongest terms. I'm not sure if we've been following the same conflict!

How have Israel been answerable to the international community? The US who funds their genocide told them not to go into Rafah and here we are. They don't give a shit about the international community. I'm amazed you think they do.

Auvergne63 · 07/05/2024 13:35

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:58

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

You do know Palestinians have no right to return?

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:34

@eomeoni ,

‘Are you seriously going to use that argument. It sounds like I have black and Asian friends so I can say what I want.’

If you have a problem with what I say, kindly address the argument. Don’t go accusing me of racism when I am not racist and have never posted anything which is!

Pathetic.

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:32

@ConnieCounter ,

‘But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?’

Destroying infrastructure isn’t a war crime if the purpose is to get to your enemy. It is , although I hate the term, ‘collateral damage’ and happens in every single war. The question is whether there is too much.

I have been sent articles by military historians saying that the IDF is fighting one of the most targeted and merciful wars given the nature of the terrain and enemy (urban theatre and Hamas using civilians as human shields). They cite the ratio of military to civilian dead and compare it to past battles.

I am not a military expert and I think some of the data they use is dodgy. But, equally, looking at pictures and saying Israel has done a terrible thing denies it true analysis or historical comparison.

My personal opinion (and this is total speculation) is that Israel tried to run a careful and targeted campaign but that some units have committed war crimes and deliberately targeted civilians. I can’t know any of this, though, and nor can anyone on this thread.

As to the lack of food and fuel at the beginning (I think it is getting better now), that does look like a war crime and it should be properly investigated.

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:25

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:23

Why does Egpyt want to help them into a safe zone??

It's been explained to you several times already so I'm not going to waste my time going over the same ground

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:23

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DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:23

Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:16

The only way that large numbers of refugees from Gaza are going to leave and enter Egypt is if the IDF 'accidently' destroy enough of the border wall/fence

Can't imagine Egypt being happy with that

Why does Egpyt want to help them into a safe zone??

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